Courage to Drive a 2008 Prius?

Has the car been recalled/serviced?
Have there been any problems so far?
Have you inspected the pedal?
Do you know how to react to a 'stuck' pedal type emergency.

Bottom line is, if the lady won't drive it you've gotta trade it in...no good trying to make a lady or cat do anything they don't want to.
Del

This "How to stop a car from accelerating out of control" video from Consumer Reports is worth watching as it is demonstrates how to do it when you are not in a panic situation, and practicing that will help you know what to do if it ever really happens.

http://video.consumerreports.org/services/player/bcpid1886192484?bctid=48234862001

I am very interested to know what the emergency procedure is for a stuck accelerator.

I mean, how often does this happen? Who actually knows what to do? Does it depend on the situation?

There was a case here recently on a freeway. The police were telling the driver to turn the ignition off. Think about the consequences of that. The brakes would not work and he could not get the car out of gear.

So, what do you do if the accelerator is stuck?

Shove it into 'N', brake, switch off ignition, shout whaaaaaaa, wet your pants.
Did I miss anything out?

With a manual gearbox, you can dip the clutch, ignore the engine reving it's nuts off, the engine management system should stop it exploding <cough, cough>.
(Don't you hate that when the EMS limits your revs for you?)
Del

Shove it into 'N', brake, switch off ignition, shout whaaaaaaa, wet your pants.
Did I miss anything out?

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LOL. I think the guy I mentioned could not knock it into Neutral. He did manage to phone the police though. Who turned up alongside him. I forget how the saga ended. I think he drove it up a ramp and into a wall.

If you turn of the ignition, then you lose your power braking and power steering. They could be handy, in a pinch.

You could turn off the ignition, but you should only do that when you are driving straight and there is no curves ahead.

One bad thing about the ignition key is that you may end up locking the steering wheel.

That's okay on a straight because you generally have to turn the wheel a fair amount before it locks.

Even so, turning off the ignition for a second or two and then turning on the ignition probably would "reset" the engine management system and restore normal operation if the problem is not mechanical.

It's all about scenario planning and we are taught that as a pilot to always be thinking "what if" as you fly, particularly when taking off and landing.

Unfortunately, few people get that training when learning to drive and most forget what they are taught because we are lulled into a false sense of safety, which driving is mostly safe. Mostly safe is a good thing, but can still kill you.

Here is a link to the story I mentioned above. There is an audio of his 000 emergency call.

He couldn't turn the ignition key and he couldn't move it out of gear. The thing that finally saved him was using the hand brake as well as the foot brake. It was a very close thing though. Poor guy was terrified. Do tinyurls work here? We'll see.

http://tinyurl.com/y9b2wj8

"One bad thing about the ignition key is that you may end up locking the steering wheel."

Now, AH, you should know better than that.

There's not an auto maker on the planet who will allow the steering to lock without withdrawing the key completely from the lock mechanism. It's legislated in.

And, whilst it's not in your post, I'll now take the opportunity to advise all that there is no locking mechanism in any of the gear selection mechanisms in any vehicle. That is also legislated in. In auto boxes only, there is a facillity so as not to allow the movement of the lever from PARK without first applying the foot brake.

Stu

Did you look at and listen to the link I posted Stuey?

What was he doing wrong?

Yes Morrie,

Just did , now.

I came late to the thread and completely missed that post of yours.

Sorry!

The guy has had a harrrowing experience, no doubt. And fortunate to get out of it unscathed.

Mistake number one, if he'd read the Owners Manual, "Don't operate in cruise-control mode in traffic". City motorway traffic is heavy traffic.

Second, he didn't have the right presence-of-mind to get on the brakes early in the experience.

Third, he panicked. Nothing works as it should when you panic.

Now I'm confused, because: 1 There is no link, mechanical nor electrical, from the Cruise-control (CC) to the key mechanism, the gear lever mechanism, the handbrake, or the foot brake. The CC operates by taking a signal from the 'speedo drive' and processing it and then applying a controlled vacuum to the throttle butterfly actuation vacuum motor. When trying to slow the vehicle with the CC in operation it certainly does step up the power to compensate for the slowing under brakes. Compounded by reduction in manifold vacuum to assist the brake booster. That's where the brake switch comes in. Tap the brake and the CC releases. Except when the switch is faulty. That's when the ign. switch needs to turned off, or the lever pushed into neutral (or anywhere, including reverse). Rather loose a gearbox than a life.

I've actually just tried all of the above in one of my own cars ( should have done it a renter, or the Company car, Eh?) except for the reverse bit, and what I've said works. (Here in Qld at any rate. Maybe folk just have to move to Qld to be safe?)

I am at a loss to explain the problem other than as the result of the confusion of panic, and that's, sadly, an education issue.

So, in answer to your question, he was panicked by his lack of knowledge and experience so as to handle a fundamental malfunction whilst driving, and that led to bad decisions resulting in him running out of time in which to effect an emergency procedure. The emergency procedure which he ultimately successfully adopted.

Yet another glaring example of the need for comprehensive driver training. Stu

I am no expert on all vehicles, but when cc was used on vehicles in the 70s, the vacuum signal to the throttle was also routed to a vacuum switch attached to the foot brake. As the brake was applied, the vacuum signal to the throttle opening diaphragm was vented to the atmospheres. There was also a second electrical brake light switch that caused a relay in the cc to release the throttle holding function. How old was the vehicle in question in the link?

I would turn off the ignition every time without question or hesitation. The brakes will still work but it would take more muscle, The power steering the same. Why worry if the brakes will work if you can't stop accelerating? Better to be slowing down without full brakes than to be accelerating.

" am very interested to know what the emergency procedure is for a stuck accelerator."

As, no doubt, others will tell you, simply turn off the ignition switch and leave the key in place. Do not remove it.

Alternative strategy is to simply select neutral gear and let the thing rev its head off 'till you've coasted to a stop, and thenturn off the ignition, and wait 'till your roadside service arrives.

Stuck accelerators is not new.

They've been doing this since the car was invented.

Just a pity the 'driving instructors' haven't seen the need to fully equip their students for such events, and this includes brake failure, iced roads etc.

I guess you can't figure the response to ignorance.

Stu.

GA. If there is no classes available for the "emergency driving" situations, it should be possible to find the fuse, or fuses that power the computer that feeds the electric throttle. Once that is known, it would be easy enough to run an additional wire AFTER the fuse, through a switch, to ground. That should always kill the engine. Then practice stopping a dead engine car.

As you state, one needs to practice emergency maneuvers. An effective technique taught for motorcycle riders is counter-steering used to avoid objects laying on the road. Counter-steering is about as counter-intuitive as things can be and requires a lot of practice to get the hang of it. So every once in awhile I'll drive down the road and pretend there's an object on the road and counter-steer. I make sure nobody is around looking because you'd think I was crazy! I really find it difficult for someone not to simply place a vehicle in neutral to aid in stopping a car, but I suppose under stress those things happen. In motorcycling I'm always looking behind for cars and people driving across streets in front; it has saved my butt several times. Unfortunately, I don't believe there's much defensive driving performed with cars.

Check the Prius manual for emergency engine cut-off. I believe that it is hold the START/OFF button down for 3 seconds. I know that it's a long time in a bad situation but the car should be able to be held down on brakes until that happens.

I would get in the car with her and try it. Both of you get comfortable with it.

You know that there has never been a proven case of the accelerator sticking on these cars, mine has 65K on it, no problems.

I grant that the testing and engineering has indicated nothing. But there have been a number of reports where the car seems to be unresponsive to correct driver actions. Here's what the only driver to testify before Congress said:

The last time I looked at the speedometer it read 100 mph. At this time, I had the emergency brake on while frantically shifting between ALL the gears (besides park) but mainly had it in REVERSE and with the emergency brake on. I finally figured the car was going to go to its maximum speed and was praying to God to please help me. After about 3 miles had passed, I thought it was my time to die, and I called my husband (on bluetooth). I knew he couldn't help me in this particular situation, but I just needed to hear his voice. What an awful 911 call he received at work.
At almost exactly 6 miles God intervened. I had not tried anything different that I had frantically tried before to slow the vehicle, yet the car began to slow down ever so slowly. It slowed enough for me to pull to the left median, with the motor still revving up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph I was able to turn the engine off. However, the radio remained on and I was not
about to touch ANY button on that car, or ever again.

There have been other reports of people who seem to be reasonably competent having plenty of time to try different things to regain control of their car, to no avail.

In a related story, I was involved in a freeway accident last year in which I had 0.1 second to react to avoid it. That happens to be beyond human limits, so I experienced the thrill of getting slammed in the face by an airbag. (Like a strong person hitting you HARD with a thick phone book.) Fortunately, it was an otherwise gentle collision, despite all the energy available: my sedan at 62mph, the construction truck (Ford F-650) at roughly 50mph (sideways and decelerating rapidly), slick roads.

The only safe option is to stay home. But then the Earth can swallow you up without notice - it's happened (to others, obviously).

I live on a street with very little traffic. I just run across the street without looking for cars. I have done this for 20 years. If I have never been hit, I believe I never will. Logical ?

1. Try to hit something cheap.

2. Try to hit something soft.

3. Try not to hit a mammal.

Dear Vapsterinventor,

A woman facing an "uncontrolled acceleration " (obviously and already : fearfull ? ) . Imagine this on the highway.

For HER, but think of the collateral damage that could eventuate through her own : loss, reflex of control, composure and experience.

Today not tomorrow, I would sell or trade it in . No question.

Peace of mind is : Priority ONE . Not : Prius

Labor Omnia Vincit

Try to tell her that there was a Toyota competitions try to make Toyota look bad, show her how many time the news on TV and newspaper were wrong that they just try to get the attention, better still told her that 10 of your friends who are driving the same car like her and none have a problem and if none of them work then only option left is to get her different car.

Cheers

Or get the car a different her.

I really am sorry for that. And I did try to offer a way for the wife to feel she has some options IF it happens. Come on it is funny.

I would look at increasing your wifes life insurance policy, that way you can reassure her that if anything happens to her that you and the rest of the family will be well-off.

only joking my friend, you could always install some form of engine kill switch but for that you would have to consult an auto electrican.

It all depends on if you want the lady around for as long as possible. If the car did do a runaway then she will have almost no control since from the reports you can only steer it almost everything else is disabled to the driver. A Ignition B Gear Selection,C 90% of the brakes, As long as there is a threat to runaway I would leave it parked until they solve the electrical problem. Cars that have been so called fixed are still having a problem. I would be out of my comfort zone driving one until it can be controlled with a proper fix.

Just install a competition type Electrical isolation switch to the batteries. If it runs away, pull the cord.

I agree a dead man switch would be the only interim solution same as you find on some farm equipment, recreational vehicles and construction machinery. Just yank the cable and kill the power.

Disconnecting either of the battery cables will stop nothing. The alternator will continue to supply all the electrical energy needed for the car to continue to run. I described a way to kill the engine that will be easy for most any DIYer to do. Another method is to interrupt the electricity to the fuel pump. That will also stop the engine almost immediately. Same procedure as before, but use the power supply for the fuel pump. You could do both for more self assurance, One switch can short out 2 circuits at once if the switch is a double pole switch.

Trade her vehicles and practice a few solutions for yourself.

Don't try to make her drive it.

Guys you are missing the point. This guy just need a simple advice to convince his wife to continue driving Prius. Try to understand his situation...Make it simple for him guys !

By the way who else would like to lend a Prius for his wife ?

Keep the car and trade the missus!

Tell her there's nothing to fear but fear itself. Perhaps she should only travel by air since it's so many times safer than travel in any kind of car. I guess my point is that despite all the hype, her fear is rather irrational. Tell her to live life for God's sake and quit being afraid. If that doesn't work, donate the car to me; I will give her a blanket liability release for it and drive happily away. After all, if she sells this devil car, imagine the potential liability she could be opening herself up for! She's likely afraid of the potential liability too. Rayzer

This isn't just a problem with Prius. The car in the incident I mentioned was in fact a Ford. The cruise control jammed. That could happen with lots of cars, I imagine. If it ever happens to me, I will remember to use the hand brake in conjunction with the foot brake.

Ad hoc modifications as suggested above with void your warranty I would think.

I had this scare with my Volvo 98 when the throttle cable got rusty. I had complained to my mechanic about the pedal getting harder but he said it was normal. (He is not my mechanic anymore)

When it happened, the accelerator did not come back. My wife and kids were wondering what game I was playing. With 230HP, you hit the speed limit quickly.

I did turn off the ignition after a few tries of getting the pedal unstuck because the speed was getting too high to continue.

Fortunately, I didn't lock the steering. I don't remember if I knew not to turn the key all the way or I was lucky.

With the engine off, the brakes and the steering wheel are heavier but the adrenalin can compensate... We stopped safely and pull along the road.

I oiled the cable and it has been OK for more than a year. There wasn't any damage to the cable, the original lub had become too thick.

From now on, I lubricate these cables every year on my older cars.

Strange thing. On another thread here about the Toyota engine problem, there was one poster that suggested that Toyota should have left throttle cables in their cars.

After a bit of thinking, I think I have a nother simple solution. Fit an 12 volt soleniod to the fuel line before the fuel pump, if a problem occurs turn off the soleniod via a switch mounted inside the car, then the car will run out of fuel and coast to a stop.

Cheers

Joe

Unfortunately, your solution would not work on a Prius. I guess it would work eventually, after the batteries lost their charge.

Why would it not work? Turning off the soleniod will stop the flow of fuel, so the motor has to stop!

Cheers

Joe

Oops, I had it confused with the Volt, which doesn't use fuel to move itself. Sorry about that.

Guys, I don't have a solution to offer ,but, a few questions that may or may not help.

First- If the vehicle has an automatic trans I don't think you can lock the steering by shifting into neutral and turning the ignition to off. If I recall correctly you can't lock the steering until you get it into park can you?

Second- If it is a stick shift the answer already offered of shifting into neutral or depressing the clutch should disengage the engine from the trans and let er rip, but you are not at the mercy of the car is this correct?. Not all that familiar with a prius, but is their set up much different from an American car?

The Prius is not linked to the sudden acceleration problems reported with other Toyota products. Later models were recalled to adjust the braking cycle, i.e. the time it takes to get feedback after pressing the brake pedal. I think it was a software fix.

A few news stories were televised/published involving the the Prius and sudden acceleration but these proved to hoaxes. The brakes were actually burned out in one instance.

If you and your wife are still concerned, go to the dealer. I'm sure they'll help you with a proper emergency stopping procedure. Good luck finding adequate advice on this site.

Remember the days when cars only did 40-50 mph(kph) and the emergency brake was sufficient to stop the car? Todays autos use the so called "emergency brake" as only a parking brake, and usually if applied strong enough the rear wheels will lock up and then what? Stunt drivers used the hand brake for fast turnarounds when they locked the rear wheels. I don't how the vehicle would behave full throttle in gear with the "emergency/ parking brake" fully applied. Anybody ever try this?

It will help, some, but it appears the regular 4-wheel power brakes are not enough to stop the car.

The parking brake only works the rear wheels and typically has only a fraction of the braking power that the foot brake does.

I don't how the vehicle would behave full throttle in gear with the "emergency/ parking brake" fully applied. Anybody ever try this?

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If you look at the link I posted above (you will have to copy and paste it) you will see a story of someone who did this and a link to an audio file of the whole incident as recorded on the emergency phone line. It worked, what more can one say? The car stopped.

It isn't speculation, it is an actual, real case of a guy on a freeway with the car jammed in gear, ignition would not turn off.

I would train your wife to become more familiar with placing the car in neutral and also practice using the emergency brake. Take the car to an open school parking lot and practice.

Back in the 80's I owned an '85 Audi 5000 Turbo; during the days of unintended acceleration litigations directed towards Audi. I did all the maintenance on my Audi, replacing may parts; including the turbo and lots of hoses. One problem I experienced was an overheating, shunt regulator zener diode inside the idle stabilization control unit or ISCU (regulated the analog circuit voltages); it took up two relay connector slots under the dashboard. The zener diode voltage slowly decreased over time from about 9.1V to 3V. I replaced the zener diode with a much larger stud mounted type. Also drilled ventilation holes in the plastic housing of the ISCU unit. The original, wire-leaded zener had a spot of thermal epoxy between the diode body and the circuit board; an attempt to conduct more heat away, but apparently not very effective.

After the car warmed up, the ISCU, an all-analog "computer" did absolutely nothing. But during initial engine warm-up, the ISCU received info from the throttle position switch, whether or not the air-conditioner was turned on and engine temperature; sent this info to control the modulation of the idle stabilization control valve which bypassed the throttle valve. When the ISCU wasn't working the car's idle was terrible ... and I'd sit in the car with one foot on the gas peddle and the other foot on the brake trying to maintain idle till the car warmed up. Interestingly, the unintended acceleration only occurred with automatic transmission vehicles. And it's only with vehicles with automatic transmissions that "playing" with the accelerator and brake pedals was possible. A standard transmission adds a third pedal, the clutch. And manipulating three pedals to maintain idle and trying to move the car forward requires three feet, one foot more than most humans have. I have the full, very thick Dept. of Transportation document written on unintended acceleration and they never covered my observations. About a half page mentions the ISCU control unit, and basically gives the unit a clear bill of health, ha ha.

I wrote a paper about this during the settlement phase of the Audi litigation. Audi responded to my problems by sending a German field engineer to my house in which he took my car and gave me a loaner ... this happened two or three times. Audi replaced my steering unit, air conditioner temp control repairs, some trim work replacement, etc. Did Audi replace the original, defective ISCU? No they didn't. The field engineer said my modified ISCU with the big stud zener diode hanging on wires with a housing of about 25 drilled cooling holes was probably better than a new, original ISCU, and that really made me laugh. They did give me a new spare ISCU. Conversations with the field engineer made me realize that Audi knew every problem I had discovered in the car (no surprise, really). Another idle problem was caused by an inter-cooler hose leak, it was located over the turbo that baked and cracked the hose. Replaced this hose several times until I finally wrapped lots of duct tape around the house and that cured the baked hose problem. But this hose problem also caused idle problems.

My wife has a 2003 Audi TT that has an interesting problem. When her car drives through a specific area in Montecito the engine fault indicator is activated. So much so, I purchased one of those boxes that reads out the engine fault codes and resets the fault indicator. The part of town where the problem sometimes occurs seems to be pretty much residential. Maybe a high-powered ham rig is the culprit. So when there's reference to Toyota engine problems possibly occurring near high voltage lines, I believe it. There's a ton of high tech engine controls waiting to go bad in today's cars. And messing around with my wife's 2003 Audi TT has made me realize that it is a heck of a lot more complicated than my 1985 Audi that did have some more easily observable problems. Maybe there's just too much complexity in today's vehicles.

I should make the distinction that Audi's unintended acceleration problems in the 1980's was related to acceleration occurrences during vehicle start-up. Audi's were crashing through garage walls of homes and walls of parking lots. Of course, Toyota problems have occurred during high speeds on the highways. My Audi was recalled and modified with the start-up requirement of the foot placed on the brake and the shifter in the "park" position. Also considered an Audi problem was the close together positioning of the brake and gas pedals.

The simplest solution would be to swap cars with you wife, you drive the Prius she drives your car.

Cheers

Joe

I believe that a driver should be prepared to deal with all the situations that may happen while driving. How many times did an accelerator get stuck in the last 10 years creating a dangerous situation: 10 times? 1,000 times? Even in the last case, odds are still close to ZERO. A flat tire @ 70 MPH is by far much more frequent and you can bet most drivers have no idea of what they should do in this situation!

Sorry, but if we start getting concerned about this, we also should train our wive on what to do if a meteorite hits her car! LOL

I'm not too concerned with meteorites, it's the asteroid impact that will reset life on earth that I'm concened with . But like you said, the odds are pretty small ... I hope.