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dvmdsc
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House of the Rising Oil

05/20/2010 11:48 PM

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HOUSE OF THE RISING OIL - re: post OIL SPILL

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dvmdsc
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#1

Re: HOUSE OF THE RISING OIL -

05/21/2010 2:55 AM
This is a happy solution for everyone:

We convert the house of the freezing oil, like a convertible, almost without roof - to the house of the rising oil.

With plenty of space for mini- icebergs to do the climb also and thaw on the trip to the surface.

Around the house comes a big hose or pipe, as strong as we can make it.

The house builders can go to work, the hose makers can show what they can and on top BP can collect the oil.

There is even a "Bang" zone for non smokers. This system is tested in a pool, without ice.

The drawing is not on scale as you can see. The hose should be longer, because the oil will rise on top of sea level.

Mother nature will help this work, just do not invite hurricanes.

This is a break to give the engineering group the time to eliminate the spilling hole by all means, when the new hole has been drilled, and doesn't leak.

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cwarner7_11 Guru
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Panama Posts: 2247 Good Answers: 100

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367
In reply to #366
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 8:22 PM

Your house of the rising oil is one of the best out of the box ideas I have seen- but how long is it going to take to fabricate the mile-long tube? How about catching the methane at the top, compressing it, then pumping it back down to give us an "air lift" that will help suck the oil into the house?

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dvmdsc Guru
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368
In reply to #367
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 9:37 PM

The methane crystals will thaw on the way up and will be released to the air, just like it happens now

only (in the bang zone)

After further elaboration the methane and hydrocarbons can be recovered too, but not out of a plastic bag.

If they make the top of the pipe somewhat rigid other possibilities will open up.

Lynlynch extruded plastic I thought, blowing that 1500 m will take a few hours, when they do it in HDPE sheet.

The rolls wide plastic sheets are made that way, they are cut from opening a pipe that flows out of the xtruder The challenge will be to collect it in one piece and transport it there.

It might be easier to extrude and blow it on the spot. (leak however are no big deal, they are used to that by now and it be be less than 1%. If engineered will, they don not lose one further drop of crude to the ocean anymore.

I also do not know what can destroy the PE (free chemicals) My basic idea was a series of big 10 feet(diameter) drainage pipe, joined together, to get more strength, because there is a membrane pressure difference, that will tend to make the diameter smaller.

A practical solution to bring the pressure in and out the pipe to the same level could be extending the hose to a tower, a few hundred meters above sea level. This is one hour experimenting with how high.

That hose will be standing up by itself in the water. The gushing oil will be very calm at the surface, fairly separated from the water, ready to be pumped out of the hose, making room for new.

When you check for the biggest balloon in guinness 1997 -has been made in 12 minutes (was 250 meter) but with a extruder- blower it can be endless, as long as you feed PE to the intake. A thick quality could be tried, if transparent they also have some control of the process. But pipes as said will be more rigid and more reliable.

By now they probably also blow PP or a mix, that is chemically more resistent.

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cwarner7_11 Guru
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370
In reply to #368
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 10:23 PM

My experiences with HDPE- good for hydrocarbons (>15 years pumping diesel through it, partially subsea, with an exposed section in the tidal zone- no problems at all in 15 years). Problem- it floats. Need a lot of weight to hold it vertical (we had to put a lot of concrete anchors along the pipe to keep it on the bottom). If you can come up with some way to protect against hurricanes, you may have a scheme that can turn this in to a producing well until the pressures equalize, and no more flows from the reservoir...

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kevinm Power-User
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371
In reply to #368
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 10:32 PM

SG of HDPE is 0.95 and SG of sea water at depth will be above 1.0. It will float. Is there a material with a heavier than sea water SG like ductile steel perhaps? Just not sure how to assemble it to a 5000 feet depth. It too may be very unstable in ocean currents. this project will take serious engineering even if its a temporary fix. __________________
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dvmdsc Guru
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372
In reply to #371
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 10:42 PM

pipe to connect to the steel house. __________________
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dvmdsc Guru
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373
In reply to #371
Re: Oil Spill 05/20/2010 10:53 PM

That is already close

They can adapt with additives like heavier powders.

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lighthasmass
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#2

Re: House of the Rising Oil

05/21/2010 10:42 PM

Much better solution than BP's:

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/05/jon-stewart-does-the-bp-oil-spill/

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RHABE
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#3

Re: House of the Rising Oil

05/22/2010 5:14 PM

Hi,

good idea,

much better then what they did: to insert a small tube into the leaking one.

Problems: the pressure difference may collapse the flexible plastic tube at the bottom and rupture it near the surface. So there is a need for attached solid rings to stabilise and to give sufficient ballast.

A long tube extending to the surface has considerable drag so I have no feeling how much pressure may be at the bottom from the well and the needed cross-section for a non-pumped rising.

Stabilising cabling to be added at the stabilising rings and to be activated by ships or active buoys. (Like antenna-mast stabilising). Underwater currents may act with considerable force.

I would suggest a pipe of say (estimated) 1m diameter made as the expansion bellows used in any long piping, one any 100m may be sufficient so easy bending without damage is possible or may be totally without rigid sections.

To be discussed if from PE or from steel. PE is not soluble at all. Only the aromatic hydrocarbons will readily diffuse through.

Or some length from steel and some from PE or PP to adjust for total buoyancy.

Anchors with cabling to ships or other points as above mentioned.

Pumping from a ring-shaped floating platform?

Where to submit?

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dvmdsc
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#4
In reply to #3

Re: House of the Rising Oil

05/22/2010 6:31 PM

All your comments have been noted. Also lots of problems will disappear when they decide to cut almost all the piping away from the top of the BOP.

The drag will work upwards... what we need, The rings on top are certainly needed to create a floating lake to pump out the oil.

(the separation zone will create lower pressure)

We will need a lot more than 1 meter diameter, because water has to be included in the pipe to keep it open. From where the separation begins, solid rings should be in place.

From that point on we can build up a membrane pressure difference, relative to what the wall can hold. (just control the height of the seawater inside) The sea water on the outside wants to close in the pipe.

I know of PE sheet of 12 meter wide. They produce this with extrusion and blowing. To make it a sheet they only cut one length long. (that'll give us almost 4 meter) This type of open bag, without cutting can do the job almost from the bottom to the open vessel (basin)on top.

Too small, will again make the crystals clog the pipe, by capping the rest of the roof of the house. The house should be about roof- less and the pipe should be a continuation of the same perimeter or wider.

No ice crystals will last against the PE in the seawater. They all will float up, thaw and revert into gas.

Small diameters is the way to disaster. Now there is an infinite diameter and the oil floats up and the ice doesn't last up on to the top.

When too small diameters come in place, the water can become that cold that the ice will freeze together to one mass.

In the pipe need to be a thermal, flow and density balance, or it needs to be created artificially. Otherwise it won't work.

We need to talk about all this because the available membrane is limited.

Bigger is better, come on burn some money for plastic. Where to post? I still hope they give it a try. There is nothing to lose, only a lot to win.

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dvmdsc
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#5
In reply to #3

Re: House of the Rising Oil

05/22/2010 6:40 PM

For the people, who are still hesitating:...

If the floating devices should reach to the bottom with a plastic sheet and they were all connected in a circle, where should the oil go?

Yes?

And where it goes you pump it up.

So it goes nowhere further.

This is the whole basic thought, simplified, behind the idea.

Nobody calls till now.

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