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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8

Regarding the Relay Settings

06/07/2010 4:17 PM

I have a query regarding the settings of I>, I>> (over current protection) of one distribution feeder.

Problem:

CT rating :300/1A

Settings of I> :

Current setting I> : 1A

Time setting(sec) : 0.2Sec

Characteristics : IDMT NI

Settings of I>> :

Current setting I>> :4A

Time setting(Sec) : 0.3sec

Characteristics : DMT

Areva Micom P111 relay is used here and these are the settings set in the relay.

At First, are these settings correct and coordination is proper ?

My actual query :

If 3-ph fault would happen and its fault current is about 1000A(case-1) and 2000A(case-2)

Then what protection I> or I>> will pick up and give the trip command?

My Assertion :

Im thinking that If the fault current is lessthan 300x4=1200A( I>> setting) , I> will follow the Inverse characterstic and accordingly fault will be clear in less than 0.2sec.

If the fault current is more than or equal to I>> setting, I>> will be picked up first as it is DMT and give the tripping command with allocated the time delay and I> never picked up .

Is my assertion correct?

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Regarding the Relay Settings

06/08/2010 1:52 AM

I dont understand your description of fault current. 1000A,1200A and 2000A...???

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Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: Regarding the Relay Settings

06/08/2010 2:45 AM

Micom P 111 relay ia an AREVA make Relay.

CT rating :300/1A is the Current Transformer ratio

Settings of I> :

Current setting I> : 1A i.e set for 300 Amps i.e PSM (Plug Setting Multiplier) is 100%

Time setting(sec) : 0.2Sec this as per the relay is not the operating time but it is the Time multiplier Setting

Characteristics : IDMT NI, as per the relay, this implies that this is a equivalent of CDG (Areva make) 3 second relay

Settings of I>> :

Current setting I>> :4A ,this is the highset current i.e set to 1200 Amps

Time setting(Sec) : 0.3sec, this is the definite minimum time setting

Characteristics : DMT

Your query :If 3-ph fault would happen and its fault current is about 1000A(case-1) and 2000A(case-2)

Let us consider Case 1. i.e 1000 Amps fault current. In this case the I>> element does not pick up as it had been set to 1200 Amps. Only the I> shall protect and the relay operating time shall be approximately as per the relay manual

t =TX( (K/((I/Is)alpha - 1))+L)

K= 0.14 Alpha =0.02, L=0

or approximately

t= 3 X TMS /log( Fault current / Equivalent value of current setting in relay)

t= 3 X 0.2 /log(1000/300) = 1.147 seconds

Let us consider Case 2. i.e 2000 Amps fault current. In this case both the I> and the I>> element shall pick up as the fault current is greater than both the settings

I> operating time shall be approximately

t= 3 X TMS /log( Fault current / Equivalent value of current setting in relay)

t= 3 X 0.2 /log(2000/300) = 0.728 seconds

and I>> shall operate after definite minimum time of 0.3 Seconds.

So in Case 2 the I>> protection is faster and shall clear the fault

Note: Only for fault currents above 30000 Amps, the I> protection shall be faster than I>>.

So, if the fault current is limited to less than 30KA, your protection settings are OK for this feeder, you can consider reducing the DMT of I>> if the fault currents are still higher, however, proper coordination for the entire system shall be required and has to be carefully studied

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Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Regarding the Relay Settings

06/08/2010 3:53 AM

Im very pleased with your reply as it cleared my query.

Your clarification is very helping to understand the relay settings.

To little extent of this query,

2 days earlier, one of our distribution feeder got tripped on 3-ph fault

protection settilngs of this feeder are same as mentioned earlier.but we have set the same settings by replaced the p111relay with areva P143relay.

but here fault current recorded here is R-ph 3300Amp,Y-ph 6695,B-6680Amp respectively. and fault clearing time recorded here is 315msec.

but here I got the doubt is , since I>> setting is 4A(corresponding fault current 1200A), why this relay is waited untill the fault current went upto 6695Amp??

Because of this heavy fault current ,many LT motors at our remaining distribution feeders connected to the same bus got tripped and hence caused the production loss.

My view why it is waited for 300 msec is,

as per I>> setting, it is waited for 300msec time delay and within this time lapse, fault current could have risen upto huge 6695Amp.

Is my assertion correct ?

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Regarding the Relay Settings

06/08/2010 5:29 AM

Fault current has basically 3 stages, one is the sub transient stage,that lasts only1-2 cycles i.e 40 ms at the max, where the current will be very high

second is the transient stage where the fault currrent reduces slowly in 3-4 cycles i.e 60-80 ms

third is the steady stage fault current that remains till the fault is cleared.

The currents recorded by the relay pertain to which state is not indicated or given in the manual, however system study experts say that it records the 1st stage, i.e the sub transient stage, where the current is maximum.

From the details given above if the fault current of 6695 Amps persisted continously, then, I> can clear the fault only after 444 milliseconds.

Therefore, it is evident that the fault had been cleared by I>> only.

The time indicated 315 Milli seconds in the relay , is it the relay operating time or the total fault duration ?

If it is the total fault duration, it includes the breaker opening time also.

As I> setting the relay operating time is 444 milliseconds, which is higher than 300 milliseconds set for I>>, hence I>> had cleared the fault after 300 Milliseconds.

More important is that any relay cannot control the fault current, it can only sense it and provide protective relaying, rather in this case only after the fault currents have risen to such a high magnitude in the very first cycle of the fault, the relay had started to sense it as an abnormality.

At the time of fault the there will be heavy /severe voltage dip and this has a cascading effect as all the AC contactors for motors drop off at low voltages, hence tripping of motors at time of fault is common. However our efforts should be to reduce/eliminate the potential threats of fault which are in our control.

Also the relay has the disturbance recording facilty, if you retreive its record, the same will give you a better idea of the fault parameters and much better than the event record values.

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