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VFD

06/24/2010 9:50 AM

Dear All, I am using VFDs in spinning application. But I am facing a problem repeatedly that whenever there is voltage dip in state elect. board upto 100V from 415V for a 100-150msec, my VFDs trips on under voltage and restarts as a function of re-starting parameter but during this all the yarn breaks which results in production loss for the company. I think of a solution for this fault is: To provide a DC supply directly to the DC bus of the VFD so that if there is if any momentary dip, it will not trip/re-start the VFD on Under Voltage Trip. Is it ok or I should go for some other solution

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#1

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 10:19 AM

You could look at constant voltage transformers, or interruptible power supplies.

I don't know what type of VFD you are using, but connecting an external supply directly to the DC bus doesn't sound very practical to me. Also, depending how the VFD senses the low voltage, it may still react to a voltage dip on the AC input.

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#2

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:13 PM
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#4
In reply to #2

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:21 PM

Getting a Page Not Found.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:25 PM

Strange, I downloaded the pdf, it's from PG&F. Can I post it?

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:29 PM
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:33 PM

Truncated or malformed link... try this one

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:34 PM

Thanks.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 1:28 PM

Excellent article. If the OP is fortunate, he may be able to reprogram some of the VFD parameters. (Check the documentation carefully and/or consult with a representative of the VFD manufacturer.)

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 1:34 PM

I appreciate GAs when I get them and thanks to whoever cast a vote, but in this case I think the vote should go to the original poster who found the document. I only corrected a "spelling" error to enable the original link provided in post #2.

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#15
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Re: VFD

06/25/2010 8:26 PM

Thank you.

I wonder if the OP was able to solve his problem?

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#11
In reply to #2

Re: VFD

06/25/2010 3:20 AM

Dear Unredundant, the link you have sent is not working pl. check and re-send

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: VFD

06/25/2010 3:34 AM

See #7

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#3

Re: VFD

06/24/2010 12:18 PM

Most of the VFDs I've used had terminals designed to be connected to external DC bus capacitors. With an appropriately sized external capacitor bank, you should be able to "ride" over the shorter line droop events.

Initial charging of large DC bus capacitors must be done correctly or the high surge currents can destroy the bridge diodes. Also, a large capacitor bank will store a LARGE amount of energy and extreme caution MUST be used at all times when working on or near the drive/capacitor assembly.

I suggest you contact the drive manufacturer first to see if they have any recommendations for (or against) using external bus capacitors.

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#13

Re: VFD

06/25/2010 8:58 AM

Yes you can use a DC bus to supply most of the VFDs in the market. If this is a Spinning Frame, the load will be ~15 kW minimum(?). Your DC supply will have to be substantial: 3 phase rectifier bridge with diodes for ~ 40A at least and 1200V rating.

The Capacitor will have to be rated at the same voltage or at least 1000 V, with capacity ~40,000 microfarad to cover your 200 ms dip without tripping.... I am guessing since I did not read the article mentioned. The DC bus will be at ~585V peak after rectifying.

I think that all this might not be needed: A spinning frame should not have end breaks when you loose power: the speed will be droping relatively slowly. It is when you pick-up speed after re-setting automatically that you might have the problem: Too fast start-up(?). ADJUST the Starting RAMP for the Final (High speed) speed (or running speed) so that it starts slowly.

If you are willing, you can pick-up the problem dip and re-start the frame sequentially, going through the ramping of the increase speed properly.

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#18
In reply to #13

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 8:22 AM

Maybe a flywheel or a tensioned accumulator (idler) for the yarn would cure this?

Expense?

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 8:47 AM

I think the OP is talking about a Yarn spinning machine in the textile industry. These frame have somewhere between 300 and 1000 spindles. There are 2 main types: Ring spinning and Open end spinning. The ring spinning type could be his type.

this consists of a steel ring having a cursor that is loose to travel round the internal diametre. A tube is in the middle of the ring and spinns at between 5000 and 10000 rpm depending on the ring diam etc. The yarn comes froma drafting system and is wound on the tube after going through the cursor (which is draged along to insert a twist on the fibres...).

The breaking of the yarn ends is, amongst other causes, due to a sudden speed increase from very low to high. In his case, if the main motor and the frame inertia is big enough, slowing down in 100ms is nothing to worry about except that the VFD might be shutting down completely then restarting after too long a stop.

As suggested by (RedFred?) a ride through should be parametred and not a shut down. the inverter can take a short dip without stopping to feed the motor. His setting looks unusual to me.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 9:15 AM

Thanks for the clarification, my suggestions for a mechanical "cure" were based on my experience with high speed rolling stock automation and the use of drive train flywheels and accumulators to "ride through" fluctuations in speed. But these features were designed in to the original machine.

In this case VFD adjustment is more practical.

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#14

Re: VFD

06/25/2010 9:31 AM

There should be a parameter called "momentary power loss ride through" in your VFD. If you enable it, it would take care of such momentary power loss conditions.

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#16

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 12:04 AM

Mr. contact the manufacture to know about its total power loss through time. normally it is 100-300 msec and depends ondesign parameters. without any external DC it can be changed by mfg co with internal modifications ie storing more energy in DC bus

rattanpk@yahoo.com

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#17

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 2:08 AM

100-150m sec is a very small time, you can adjust the under voltage trip settings in the VFD to this and make sure it will not trip during the dip of voltage. incase your VFD type does not provide a range of this type then its better to provide a rotary UPS in the incomer so that it will take the voltage dip.

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 9:01 AM

there is not any parameter (user accessible) like, "Under Voltage trip" in VFD

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#22

Re: VFD

06/26/2010 10:08 AM

In spinning mill the thread breakage is a problem.This happens even if u use a old system of speed change by pulleys or 2 speed motors.One way is to go in for a no break set(Rotary Ups).There are many variations.one type is a motor driven generator supplying power to the PCC supplying the ring frame motors.It has a fly wheel on the other end with a centrifugal clutch connecting to a diesel engine.In normal operation motor gets its power from the mains but when there is interruption the flywheel maintains the speed for about 22 second when the diesel engine comes to speed and connects to generator which continues to run.The load does not see the break in supply.This is better as a electronic ups will need a huge batter bank depending upon the number of motors u have in the mill.

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