Previous in Forum: 78 F150 Now Has Power   Next in Forum: Do you know what "pyrolysis" is?
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
Good Answers: 1

671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 12:19 AM

Hello all,

I run a dive charter and operate a 55' converted tug on the Canadian side of Lake Ontario. She has been operating fine (1500-1700 RPM= 8 kts Throttle a little over half; good economic cruising speed) however today I pushed it up a bit (Throttles about 3/4 -2000 RPM 9-10 kts) She was reacting very poorly by sputtering and jumping up and down on the RPMs almost as if she was starving for fuel and then getting a surge and starving again. I'm no diesel mechanic but I guessing that I may have a couple of bad injectors? There is no indication of wet stacking or excessive smoking.

I've kind of ruled out the fuel pump as it would do the same at the lower RPM's no?

Or perhaps the pump can't keep up with a higher demand? Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 60
#1

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 12:34 AM

I would first start with the filters, make sure they are all clean. Second I would check for something in the tank that could be surging back and forth that might be clogging the fuel inlet line.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz
Posts: 951
Good Answers: 145
#2

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 12:52 AM

Ok this looks like it might be a by the book job.

Have you had the fuel system maintained?

When was the last time the fuel filters were replaced?

Have you checked/serviced the water trap/s?

Is there any evidence of adulterated fuel? I.E. Water in the fuel?

Are the fuel lines clear internally?

Are the strainers on the fuel tank pick up clean?

Is there any "algal" sludge in the fuel tank?

Are all the unions on the fuel line system properly tensioned?

Is it sucking air into the fuel lines?

When was the last time the injectors/injector pump was looked at/serviced?

I would look at or do the basic maintenance first before ripping the injectors and injector pump off. However it may well be a case of giving it some luvvin if it has been neglected. If you have had water in the fuel and it has gone through the injector pump, then you will have to take it off (with the injectors) and send it to the man to service it. As your operating "outside" it would be good insurance to catch up on all the maintenance of your motor.

Note: All it takes is to get one dud dose of fuel to upset the apple cart. Your making a living from you boat and if the motor ain't turnin, you won't be earning.

__________________
There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 60
#3

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 12:55 AM

Also, check the oil level because I worked with a Detroit engine that had a low oil shut off and when the oil would get low the engine would surge until it finally stopped.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 7:25 AM

Last several posts said it all. As you probably know by now, fuel cleanliness is essential for a good running engine. Unless you have already done or had done, fuel system service is the first consideration in my opinion also, and should be a routine regularly with these engines. Until these basic maintenance items are attended to, it would not be appropriate to suggest any additional procedures.

h

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#5

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 8:44 AM

Filters first. After that try looking at the pick up in the fuel tank. Extra throttle = extra speed= lifting bow=uncovered fuel pick up. It would be worth a look.

Could the governors setting be low, and the engine be bouncing off of it?

Tapping a fuel pressure gauge into the port on the head should show weather the fuel delivery is sufficient. Good luck.

__________________
Bob
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
Good Answers: 1
#6

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 10:29 AM

Thanks all for the insightful comments

The filters are changed regularly (about 30 hrs since last change)

I use a fuel treatment with every fill up and put in an algalcide for winter storage.

I will check all the other points (as soon as I find out where they are) Strainers on the fuel tank pickup?

Once I go through the excellent check lists provided I'll move to other suggested sources such as governor and low oil. I also like the idea of a fuel pressure guage.

I'll dip the tanks to check for water. Thanks for all the excellent input I'll post my progress.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2446
Good Answers: 60
#7

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/01/2010 6:02 PM

just a shot in the dark.

try removing the exhaust at the manifold if poss, i know it may not be easy on a marinised engine or just slack off the exhaust at the manifold to see if the silencer is blocked

All the other posts are very good

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#8
In reply to #7

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/02/2010 3:30 AM

The silencer in this application is the water it's floating in.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#9

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/02/2010 3:51 AM

Is this 671 blown? An injector or upper cylinder issue in all probability but the pump rack could be at fault as you say it was surging, pop the valve cover off, move the rack, make sure there is no bind.(the rack is a long metal tube that is connected to the fuel rod in the injectors). If it is stuck or binding, i would have someone who knows these engines fix and adjust it.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#10

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/02/2010 7:21 AM

Many of these engines used a bridge on the exhaust valves. A bridge that has broken, or an exhaust valve spring that has broken might cause a build up of exhaust pressure, leading to an oxygen depleted environment in the cylinder. perhaps one of the exhaust valve springs. Pull the cover(s) off and let it idle, and watch for any non-moving parts.

__________________
Bob
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
Good Answers: 1
#11

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/02/2010 11:10 PM

Update #1

I started with the strainer; what a mess. lots of sludge and crap. Don't know when that filter was ever changed. Cleaned the housing, slapped in a new filter. Opened up the air filter; the main filter was clean (blew it out anyway) The prefilter (air) screening (layered mesh screens) I found were significantly filthy. Blew them out and re-installed the unit. She fired up with no issues, I slowly raised the RPMs to 2000+ and held it for about 10 minutes; not a single sputter; the sound she made was one I have not heard in a while (her old self) purring like a kitten. Will test drive tomorrow under load and change the main filter and the strainer filter again to see if there is any additional sludge buildup. All fittings were tight and secure. We'll see what tomorrow brings

Thanks a bunch to all for your valuable insights; I've added all the comments to my troubleshooting guide and slipped it into the maintenance log.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#12
In reply to #11

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/02/2010 11:18 PM

What was the nature of the sludge build up? Is it algae. there are companies that specialize on fuel polishing. they run your fuel threw a series of high quality filters to remove crap. If that crap was on the strainer, where else is it? Logic says it should also be in the fuel tank. (or is your strainer in the fuel tank) Either way, what ever got into the strainer had to come from the tank. Heavy doses of algaecide and frequent filters have helped me with a series of 92s. Good luck.

__________________
Bob
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #12

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/03/2010 8:00 AM

Thanks Bob;

I'm sure that the filter had never been changed (5yrs) I have a partner and he's responsible for maintenance and I look after administration and logistics; however, the last few years and, in particular this year, I'm finding that I am involved with the maintenance significantly more. The more I read and discuss the more I discover that good maintenance is not being done. All that said I am handling the maintenance now and won't have a partner at the end of the season. I am going to check the filters more regularly to see if there is consistent sludge buildup; if so I will get the tanks serviced. I have been researching building my own filter bank where I can isolate my tanks and manually control flow and filtering prior to operating.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#14
In reply to #13

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/03/2010 2:04 PM

That's redundant again.

Redundant filters are a consideration when having to shut off the sole power supply is not safe. Think about changing filters in rough seas. If money were not an issue, I would run a second pick up out of the tank. A second fuel pump and upgrade to higher capacity filters. After complete dual primary and secondary filters and pumps, join them back into one single feed to the engine with a check valve and a manual shut off in each line. That would allow turning on the unused line when the engine starts to run poorly. Then shut off the first line, and the engine sees an uninterrupted fuel supply. Good luck.

I failed to mention independent switches for the fuel pumps. Electric?

__________________
Bob
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#15
In reply to #14

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/04/2010 1:46 AM

I have never seen, or used the product, but it has all of the features one would want on a fuel filter. I would only add that remember that using a filter rated for 50 GPM on an engine needing 25 GPM is much better than trying to use a 25GPM filter on a 50 GPM engine. What ever the manufacturer recommends for your engine, just go at least one size bigger. You can not have too much filter.

__________________
Bob
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#16
In reply to #15

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/05/2010 5:18 AM

Right-o and I think the lowest flow they produce is 60 GPH, stop into a truck service dept and ask about them some time when you're puttering around a few of the fleets use them. Times when using other forms of fuel filtration the engine didn't sputter when the filter was loaded; they'd just slow down and then quit.

I should refrain from commenting about diesel repair because what little I know about diesels in centered around driving the vehicles.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 92
Good Answers: 1
#17

Re: 671 Detroit Sputtering

07/23/2010 12:37 AM

Start with your filters (fuel) and then see if there is any improvement. The old 671 is a reliable old cow and the fuel is injected by unit mechanical injectors that are fairly dependable. Go with all the simple basics first!

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); bob c (5); bwire (3); draco (2); Engineering Superman (1); FrankBird (2); peterg7lyq (1); Tobugrynbak (1)

Previous in Forum: 78 F150 Now Has Power   Next in Forum: Do you know what "pyrolysis" is?
You might be interested in: Power over Ethernet (PoE) Injectors, Fuel Cells

Advertisement