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3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/14/2010 8:06 AM

I am trying to understand the differances between high (3 lines of 220) and low (3 lines of 110) if that is in fact an accurate description. I have always used 440 and am wired for the high side but have recently aquired a smaller generator wired low I accidentally ran a motor configured high on low voltage and it worked fine . Help me to understand whats going on , or refer me to a guide on the subject that would help a layman to understand the fineries of this topic

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#1

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/14/2010 10:20 AM

The power drawn by the load = P (mechanical)

The power drawn by motor (electrical) = P / motor and the drive system efficiency so may be just a few percentage more than it.say 1.1P (ie 10% more)

This electrical power = Voltage x current x power factor.

The power factor is due to the difference in time (lag) between the sine waves of Voltage and current.

When the Voltage goes down (as in your case)

- Either the current shoots up to compensate for it if the load demand is same power. If the shot up current is within the capacity of the motor (conductors) to handle, it is all Ok or almost (losses do rise).

If it can not handle, the coils burn off with smoke.

- The current does shoot up a bit, but then the power requirement goes down, may be due to reduction in RPM, and then the previous cases may or may not happen.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/14/2010 3:39 PM

So no smoke no harm ok but I guess my question is why configure motors differently for the low 208 (3 lines of 120 ) vs leaving them in the high set up what is the effect of running the motors in different configurations ? Obviously there are good reasons in laymens terms please . My guess is short of blowing up they just don't run efficently

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#3

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/14/2010 6:13 PM

Dear,

Check the Amp. drawn by Motor. And Normal Amp. on Tag Plate.

Regard's

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#4

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/15/2010 12:50 AM

In layman's terms-

First- In the US, there are three basic "high" voltages in three phase supply- 208, 240 and 480. The decision on which voltage to use is typically based on the overall power requirements of the site. The type of voltage depends on the design of the generator and how the wires are "connected" to the end-user devices.

The connections are called Wye and Delta, because of their "shape" electrically.

208 and some 480 volts systems are Wye connections- 3 power contacts at 120 degrees separation with a central "neutral" connection between each of the 3 power connections- forming a "Y" shape. The voltage between any leg and neutral is either 120 volts (208) or 277 volts (480)- this is called the "single" phase voltage. For Wye systems, the single phase voltage is the 'primary" voltage divided by the square root of 3 (1.73). Any two of the power legs create a "rated" voltage (208 or 480) in single phase as well, or all three legs connected yield rated voltage (208 or 480) in three phase. The NEUTRAL connection is designed to "drain away" any imbalanced flow between the three power connections=> say each leg had, 20, 25 and 28 amps of load and there was NO "low" voltage single phase connections. The neutral would show a current of 8 amps (28-20). If there were low voltage connections as well, the amperage of those would also be applied to the neutral.

240 and other 480 volt systems operate on a Delta configuration. They have no neutral connection so their operating voltage is always either 240 or 480, either single phase (between two contacts) or three phase if all three contacts are connected. The connections are also at 120 volt separation, so the wiring description looks like a diamond, or "D" and is called Delta. House wiring is a bastardization of this system because homes are normally fed with two phases of a 240 system BUT they have a neutral connection because the neutral goes back to the transformer grounding lug on the pole where the transformer is located. This allows homes to have either 120 volts (one power and a neutral) or 240 volt power for big users (air conditioner, stove, dryer or water heater). The

As an aside- based on your comment- the voltages I described are the "true" voltage names, but sometimes people refer to them as 220, 230, 440 or 460 volts. These nicknames came to be because often, the actual available voltage (due to power line losses) may not actually be the official voltages. Additionally, the "rated" voltages for motors WILL be 200 or 230 or 460. This is because the motor manufacturers have designed their motors to run at full power with "likely" voltages (due to power transmission line losses) to minimize any likely overheating due to "lower" voltages- if they see "rated" voltages, the motors can do a little more work and/or will run a little cooler because the amperage will be lower than at "motor-rated" voltages. See the following discussion.

The WORK done by each is the same for any motor or other device they are connected to. WORK being defined as WATTS (with motors, it is also called horsepower, where 746 watts equals 1 HP).

Watts is defined as volts X amps. Volts is like pressure and Amps is like Flow, so the work is V units of pressure working on A units of flow- V x A = Watts. For a given power output, if the voltage (pressure) is higher than design, the amperage (flow) will be lower than design (or nameplate). Higher amperage (flow) causes more "friction" so the wires connected to the load will be hotter than if the amperage was lower.

Back to the decision on which voltage to use. First- will there be any significant single phase (120 or 277 volt) loads. If YES- then it will be either 208 or 480 volt. Next decision is what will be the maximum peak power load supported by the feed? Higher loads using higher voltages can install smaller wires because the amperage will be lower, so smaller wires can carry that load. BUT- higher voltages require higher cost components because the short circuit potential is higher (higher pressure) and better devices are required to sustain and contain the operation.

Hope this answers your questions and makes you a "smarter" end-user.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/15/2010 7:23 AM

Thanks energygod You are in fact a god of common sense I will study your input and get back to you if I have any questions I wanted to thank you for taking the time to provide a clear and understandable answer

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/15/2010 9:21 AM

One thing the I thought of but forgot to mention above was that motor manufacturers typically wire their motors to support multiple voltages- to make it easier to build just ONE design for multiple users.

Because of that, it is possible to connect a motor that seems like it was intended to be a 460 volt feed to a 240 or 208 volt service and have the motor run fine (with higher amperage (flow) than at 460 but within manufacturer's design range.

On the flip side, if the motor was not properly wired for the lower voltage, BUT the load was low enough (very few watts (power) needed to run it, it would survive because the amperage (flow)- while "high" based on full load ratings- was below the level needed to cause damage to the motor windings- fried insulation or overheated internal contacts.

For example, if a 10 HP motor was wired for 460 but connected to a 208 volt system and a 2 HP load, the amperage would have been about (2 x 743 / 208) / 0.9 efficiency factor or about 8 amps. A 10 HP motor would have been rated for (10 x 743 / 460) / 0.95 efficiency or about 17 amps so the actual load was below its capacity. BUT- DON'T DO THIS because such wiring is an electrical code violation.

End of lesson.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/15/2010 9:23 AM

ONE other item- which any of my cohorts will undoubtedly catch- I screwed up (who knows what was running around upstairs) with the WATTS number for motor HP.

It is 746 watts, NOT 743.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: 3 Phase High and Low Voltages

08/15/2010 3:05 PM

Thanks again energy

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