Previous in Forum: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack   Next in Forum: Transmission Line Problem
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4

3 Phase to Single Phase

08/21/2010 7:08 PM

I have 3 - 100 amp 460 volt 3 phase power circuits available but need to convert to multiple 120v 20amp circuits, what would be best way and how many 20 amp circuits would I have?

Jim57

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haverhill, MA
Posts: 1149
Good Answers: 151
#1

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/21/2010 7:36 PM

I am not an electrical engineer, but to my knowledge three phase 460 v delta to three phase Y 208 V will give you 120 V between each phase and neutral. The size of the transformer and the current availavle I will leave up to a qualified engineer or electrician to answer.

__________________
The older I am, the better I used to be
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
#2
In reply to #1

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/21/2010 7:39 PM

thanks for the input

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 34
#9
In reply to #1

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/23/2010 2:03 AM

OK, that's rite! You need 3-phase delta/Y transformer (460/208 V).

100 A circuit breaker can protect a transformer from 65 kVA to 83 kVA on 460 V (125% maximum plus next higher standard rating of circuit breaker <American NEC, 450.3(B)>).

What will you have on your secondary is: (277 V / 120 V)*100 A = 230 A on each phase maximum (if you use 83 kVA transformer), or about 180 A minimum (if you use 65 kVA transformer). 277V is the voltage of your phase to neutral (should your 460 V system have the neutral), and 120 V is your desired voltage (also phase to neutral) -- just to make it simpler for you.

Then you need 200 A -- 250 A-rated panel (depending on transformer you chose) where you will put your 27 -- 33 single-phase 20 A circuit breakers or 9 -- 11 3-phase 20 A circuit breakers.

You can put more circuits than that if your circuits will not be fully loaded or/and will not work simultaneously.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#3

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/22/2010 3:59 AM

57

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
#4
In reply to #3

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/22/2010 9:30 AM

57 what?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#5
In reply to #4

Re: 3 phase to single phase

08/22/2010 1:55 PM

You asked the question

Answer 57 20A 120V supplies

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 662
Good Answers: 49
#6

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 12:00 AM

First- your voltage is actually 480 VAC.

Second, your available power per 100 amp circuit is 480 X 100 X 1.73 / 1000 = 83.04 kW with 3-phase power.

Third, install (3) high efficiency 100 kW (standard size), 480 VAC to 208 VAC, Delta transformers (one per feed) in parallel and connect them to a single 800 Amp (standard size), 3-ph bus bar. (Total single phase (120 VAC) amperage available = (3) x 231.3 X 1.73 = 1200.53) Use the bus bar to feed (3) 400-amp, 3 ph, 24 pole panels and feed (20) 120 VAC 1-ph circuits per panel- connect the 19th and 20th circuits to alternating phases- A & B, B & C, and C & A to yield the highest load with a balanced 3-phase connections.

By the way, that is 60 single phase 20-amp circuits from the 3, 100-amp, 480 VAC feeds.

__________________
NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR, ALWAYS TRY TO BE BETTER TOMORROW.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
#8
In reply to #6

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 1:07 AM

Yes, this sounds good....

480v = 4 * 120volts...so, R to Y = Y to B = B to R = (4 bulbs in series).....

next, each phase can give 100 A and bulb rating is 20 Amp....... so, We can connect {5 * (4 bulbs in series) } in each R to Y, Y to B, B to R......

Finally, the total no. of bulbs that we can connect is = 4 (due to voltage division) * 5(due to current division) * 3 (due to Phase division)

= 4 * 5 * 3

= 60 (bulbs that we can connect as per the question).........

__________________
kalis.soul
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#12
In reply to #6

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 8:00 AM

Why do you think his voltage is actually 480? First, even if the nominal voltage supplied by the utility is 480 the actual voltage is probably not 480. It might be anywhere from 504 if they are right close to the substation all the way down to 460 if they are near the end of a heavily loaded circuit. Second, many industriies that receive service at primary voltage still step down to 460 volts, especially if they have old equipment. It is too bad that too many people still refer to house voltage as 110 when it is closer to 120 and the same goes with 220 - 240 and 440 - 480 in commercial installations, but it is also incorrect to make a flat statement that the voltage is 480.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 662
Good Answers: 49
#15
In reply to #12

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 2:40 PM

Whatever the "actual" voltage is does not matter- when you are talking about power issues, you need to talk about "standard" values- so, you are talking about 480 VAC, (Wye or Delta), 240 VAC (Wye or Delta), 208 VAC (Wye) and 120 VAC in the United States. Similar break-downs exist for other parts of the world.

__________________
NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR, ALWAYS TRY TO BE BETTER TOMORROW.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#7

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 12:54 AM

I suspect we may need to clarify a detail here. When you say 3 -100 Amp circuits, are you referring to the three wires of a single 100 Amp, 3 phase source, or do you really have 3 - 3 phase circuits (9 wires minimum)?

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nnewi,Anambra,Nigeria
Posts: 146
#10

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 7:07 AM

If i consider your source to be 100amp,460volt,3 phase,your multiple single phase of 120v,20amps would be taken from your source above.

Simply pick a phase and neutral and supply your 20amps circuits.

Apparent power of source S=√3VI=1.732×460×100=79.672KVA

Apparent power of each single phase s=VI=120×20=2.400KVA

You will have as much as about 79.672kva ÷ 2.400kva =33 circuits. If you use active power formular-√3vicosφ and vicosφ,you will get same result.

PATRICK WHOWHA

__________________
Patrick Whowha
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#11
In reply to #10

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 7:55 AM

energygod makes a good point in that the equipment supplying the power would be rated at 480 not 460. Consequently the number of outlets would be higher by 20V times 100A times Sqrt(1.73) divided by 2.4Kw per outlet.

The supply transformers most likely have taps to adjust the output voltage to rated voltage. And realistically a full load distributed among so many individual outlets would require a lot of equipment to be making simultaneous energy demands. The desigs is based on what is supposed to be possible, however unlikely it may be.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4
#13

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 9:10 AM

depends on how many 120v circuits you want

prob the best way is a 480v 3ph to 208v 3ph transformer

kva could 10-50, depending on how much power you need ( expensive)

put that into a 208v 3ph panel(200-250A), and line to neutral will be 120v

that would give you 20 circuits at 20A, assuming 50kva transformer

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/23/2010 9:22 AM
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
#16

Re: 3 Phase to Single Phase

08/28/2010 7:59 PM

Thanks for all the reply's. between all of the different ideas i figured what i need to have done.

thanks again

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); dkwarner (1); energygod (2); gringogreg (1); jim57 (3); kalis.soul (1); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (1); Patrick Whowha (1); ral8452 (1); repnitskiya (1); TonyS (2)

Previous in Forum: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack   Next in Forum: Transmission Line Problem

Advertisement