Previous in Forum: 8 Pin Relay -How to Wire it   Next in Forum: 3 Phase to Single Phase
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 50
Good Answers: 1

Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/21/2010 3:30 PM

Hello, I haven't posted for a while, but could really use some help. I am in the process of building an ebike battery pack from Nicad cells that were donated to me by a friend. I received 250 of these (please click to view spec sheet) 1.7ah sanyo cells, and am assembling them into 30s1p blocks that I plan to parallel together for discharge, and separate with diodes for charging.

Basically the only thing I don't have planned out is how I'm going to cut off the current coming into the separate strings from a single source. My plan is to use thermistor/thermal switch cutoffs as a safety, but NOT as the primary charging cutoff. It's because they switch back on after the batteries cool enough. My estimate is that they would heat up and cool down, and repeat that cycle until I came along and realized they were done charging. So what I would like to do is use a delta V cutoff that detects when the voltage sags at the end of the charge and cuts off the current until I reset it some how...by either unplugging or pushing a button or something along those lines. Perhaps when the voltage on the pack dips below a certain voltage per cell I could use that as a reset point.

The whole point here is I either need a small and compact design already out there (for 36v) or I need help designing one. I want to build a separate cutoff circuit for each individual string. I've had physics, and taken 1 term of circuit analysis...but the teacher was ineffective for me. So I know the basics surrounding caps, inductors, resistors as well as current/voltage controlled current/voltage sources...and a few REALLY basic things about op-amps (still didn't ever really fully understand that). But obviously I'm not an EE so designing a whole new circuit (new to me) is a bit above my head...especially being a ME major ;)

So some basic design questions for this project are:-What component could I use for cutoff that would be able to double as a discharge path and handle discharge currents (absolute MAX of 15 amps pulse, 5 A continuous from a 1.7Ah 36v string of nicad)?-What component would be able to track delta V, detect when it turns negative and signal the above device?-How could I go about setting up some sort of reset circuit to try to make it idiot-resistant?I can't really think of any more at the moment, but in the mean time here is my plan so far:

(Click here for a larger, more better picture :)

There will be 8 of these strings, not just 4.

Please let me know if you have a better source for a circuit database than I do...which basically amounts to this: electronics-diy.com

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haverhill, MA
Posts: 1149
Good Answers: 151
#1

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff circuit for large pack

08/21/2010 3:53 PM

This is not my field of expertise, but I want to say this is what I consider a well written and well thought out question that deserves an appropriate response. We have a rating for " good answer" we also should have a rating for "good question".

__________________
The older I am, the better I used to be
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff circuit for large pack

08/21/2010 7:37 PM

In a way, we do: Toward the upper right is a button that lets you rate a whole thread. I'm giving it five stars for starters.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff circuit for large pack

08/22/2010 3:00 AM

Yeah, there's a button for rating answers from cats too, but you seem to have missed it .
Baaaad kitty
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#2

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff circuit for large pack

08/21/2010 4:12 PM

Hmmm, plenty of ways of doing this sort of thing, but the problem is that added complexity can cause unforseen problems, weird modes of operation and meltdown.
I've only skim read your post 'cos I'm a Cat and I have a short attention span, so I'm ight not be answering the right question, but it'll stiull be usefull...but...
I'd suggest keeping it simple, failing that, keep it really simple.
A comparator can measure voltage or temerature using a sensor and a reference point, build some hysteresis (a bit of R/C or positive feedback) into the circuit to stop it oscillating wildly, use a relay to switch (FETS are great but have a habit of failing short circuit with nasty consequences...like a pump emptying a 600Litre container of bleach into a laundry machine)
We are talking basic op amp circuitry, and we all know op amps are dead simple right? ...wrong, there is a gap between theory and practice, but keep it all low frequency, DC, clonk clonk stuff and you'll be fine.
Now who will help me open this damn tin of tuna? I can work the can opener with these paws.
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Metro.Manila, Philippines.
Posts: 1269
Good Answers: 27
#5

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/22/2010 8:55 AM

You may try using an SCR in series for each charging leg of the battery pack, that will turn on / off the charging current at any pre-determined levels. It is a thyristor meant for DC applications like yours and comes in different voltage and current carrying capacities. Like in any junction type of devices, a diode drop equivalent has to be factored in. The electrical symbol is similar to a diode with a third leg called gate. The third element called Gate, is where the trigger signal to control the device conduction or non-conduction state. A programmable uni-junction transistor (PUT) can be used in your gate circuit. Unlike the SCR where the third element is shown schematically on the cathode side of the diode, the PUT is a smaller device that is programmable using the third element as to where the reference current is programmed and schematically shown connected on the anode side of the diode.

__________________
vsar
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 408
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/23/2010 2:28 AM

The answer to your problem could be: look into micro controller chips- they are everywhere these days- I personally have no time for them- what I would do is as was done when NiCd cells became available- use a charge at c10 rate & terminate at batt cap time- usually 14-16 hours. The other way these days is to measure cell/pack temp & terminate charge at 50" C- before damage occurs to cell/s.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/23/2010 4:11 AM

That is good, accurate & simple advice. Thanks.

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 50
Good Answers: 1
#8

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/23/2010 6:13 PM

Thanks for all of the advice folks, I appreciate it. I will simmer on this info for a while and decide what to do...

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Nicad Charging, Cuttoff Circuit for Large Pack

08/24/2010 2:37 AM

... drifts off into song...

Simmer time...
And the livin' is easy,
Fish are jumpin'...

Any song about cookin' fish does it for me
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 9 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); dequinox (1); gringogreg (1); Neil Kwyrer (1); Tornado (1); user-deleted-1105 (3); vsar (1)

Previous in Forum: 8 Pin Relay -How to Wire it   Next in Forum: 3 Phase to Single Phase

Advertisement