Creating P.M.S

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Farzad Jalali Active Contributor Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 15	Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 4:42 AM
	Hello Everyone: Would you kindly please help me with this? I want to know the steps toward creating P.M.S (Especially, selecting the materials and wall thickness calculation) in projects. For creating the P.M.S for a project we usually use the previous experiences or sometimes the client asks us to use their P.M.S as a base. As I know the following steps should be taken for selecting the materials and calculating the wall thickness: 1- Generating the PFD from Process Dep. 2- Generating the Material Selection Diagram by Material & Welding Dep. 3-Calculating the Corrosion rate. 4-Calculating the corrosion allowance (which is a part of wall thickness calculation in P.M.S) After these 4 steps we are going to calculate the wall thickness according to the paragraph 304.1.1 of standard ASME B31.3) My questions are as follow: 1-For generating the MSD how we should select the material? I have reviewed a lot of standards and specs but I could not find what I am looking for. I am really interested to have a reference for selecting the materials in this regards). 2-How we should calculate the corrosion rate in Normal condition (without CO2)? 3-I am looking for a few solved examples for both, with CO2 and without CO2. 4-Please let me know if I am wrong, and also please advise me. Best regards,
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DVader1000 Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Anywhere Emperor Palpatine assigns me Posts: 2774 Good Answers: 101	#1 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 5:19 AM
	PMS: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome? Why on Earth do you want to create that for? Aside from the fact that it occurs naturally for many women on that particular time of the month, do you know just how unpleasant it really is living with a girl with that problem? __________________ If only you knew the power of the Dark Side of the Force
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zeng210210210 Participant Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: china Posts: 3	#2 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 5:27 AM
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Tobugrynbak Guru Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz Posts: 951 Good Answers: 145	#3 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 5:39 AM
	There is only one thing that's worse than a woman with P.M.S., and that's one going through Menopause as well... __________________ There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
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redfred Guru Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15600 Good Answers: 981	#4 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 11:06 AM
	Creating P.M.S. is a CRIMINAL offence. __________________ "Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
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sue Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Near Delaware Water Gap Posts: 1324 Good Answers: 83	#5 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 12:35 PM

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redfred Guru Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15600 Good Answers: 981	#6 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 12:43 PM
	Many a Military contract has included apparent Purely Meaningless Systems that do require proper integration. Many but not all of these integrations follow the EIA-933 standard for COTS. The more cryptic and baffling the standard one has chosen to comply to, the more the standard will help to preserve the security of your system's meaning along with a bolster of your own linguistic capability to obfuscate. _{All meant in fun.} __________________ "Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
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jack of all trades Guru Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 8777 Good Answers: 376	#7 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 3:33 PM
	Could you please explain what PMS and MSD are? MSD may be Material Safety Data sheet but I don't know PMS, I am guessing it isn't any of the guesses above. You have mentioned ASME B31.3 (Standards for Pressure Piping) but this still doesn't help. Please provide more information. __________________ jack of all trades
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sue Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Near Delaware Water Gap Posts: 1324 Good Answers: 83	#8 In reply to #7 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 3:37 PM
	Maybe... Performance management system, performance measurement system or performance monitoring system [Note that these are NOT synonymous, but are used in the same field, so intended usage should be confirmed if important. ... en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PMS
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dvmdsc Guru Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: In the pool because it is too hot. Posts: 3054 Good Answers: 141	#9 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/22/2010 6:48 PM
	In Europe PMS is "post menstrual syndrome". I didn't know it was that complicated. __________________ Plenty of room here
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Anonymous Poster

#10

Re: Creating P.M.S

08/23/2010 12:23 AM

I had sample simulation below may will help you, this is had formulated at excel but can.t dis play here. This is folowing API579, hope help u

CALCULATION WALL THINING/WALL LOOSSE/ PITTING
TECHNICAL DATA
DESIGN PRESSURE	(P)	150	(PSI)
RADIUS OF VESSELS	(R)	60	(INCH)
ALLOWABLE STRESS	(S)	17500	(PSI)	( Allowable stress at T condition;chapter4-10)
SEAM WELD FACTOR	(E)	0.85	(TABLE 302.3.4;chapter 4-12)
VALUE OF KOEF OF TEMP	(y)	0.4	(TABLE 304.1.1;chapter 4-14)
MINIMUM DESIGN THICKNESS	(t _min)	((PR)/((SE)-(0.6*P)))
(t _min)	0.608725	(inch)
(t _min)	15.46162	(mm)
PARAMETER
Condition 1(pitting evaluation)	(tmm – FCA > 0.1) inch
Thickness minimum as per reading	t _mm	0.36	inch
Future corrosion Allowance	FCA	(((t2-t1)/span)*time))
First reading reference	t1	0.75	inch
Second reading reference	t2	0.36	inch
Span time from t1~t2	span	10	yr
Periode time prediction	time	11	yrs
0.039	(Cal.support )
FCA	0.039
Condition 1(pitting evaluation)	0.321	>0.1	ACCEPTABLE
Condition 2 (Limit wall loss within reason)	(tmm – FCA > tmin / 2)
0.321	>	0.304363	ACCEPTABLE		0.472668
Condition 3 (Will not fail due to pressure)	(L ® tam – FCA > RSFa x tmin)
Reading thickness at span L	t _am	0.75	0.48	0.47	0.55	0.36	0.48	0.49	0.75
Average thicness at span L	t _am	0.54125
Span efective wall loosse length	L:	1.123(((((1-((tmm-FCA)/tmin))/(1-(((tmm-FCA)/tmin)/RSFa))^2)-1)^0.5)((D*tmin)^0.5)
Out side diameter	D	20	inch
remaining strength factor alowable	RSFa	0.7	(0.7~1)
a	b	c	d	a	(tmm-FCA)/tmin
(cal.support)	0.527332	0.753331	3.67184	6.043468	1.634576	b	a/RSFa
c	(1-a)/(1-b)^^2
AVERAGE READING AREA NEEDED	L	11.09357	INCH	d	(D*tmin)^^0.5
Condition 3 (Will not fail due to pressure)	(t _am – FCA > RSFa *t _min)
Condition 3 (Will not fail due to pressure)	0.50225	>	0.426108	ACCEPTABLE

Farzad Jalali Active Contributor Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 15	#11 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/23/2010 2:02 AM
	*P.M.S* is stand for Piping Material Specification and MSD is stand for Material selection Diagram.
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Tobugrynbak Guru Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz Posts: 951 Good Answers: 145	#12 In reply to #11 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/23/2010 2:43 AM
	If you had put the plain language labels of "Piping Material Specification" and "Material Selection Diagram" in your initial post then you would have saved yourself an awful lot of ridicule. Acronyms are only appropriate once their meanings are firmly established. That stands for posts on forums or technical documentation. When you assume,, as Prof Julius Sumner Miller was want to say. __________________ There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
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Farzad Jalali Active Contributor Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 15	#13 In reply to #12 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/23/2010 4:27 AM
	Honestly I have to say I did not think that some members in "Material and Petrochemical" section did not know what P.M.S and M.S.D stand for!!!! I assumed members are going to read the question completely and then try to answer it, If they had read it completely they would not have replied to my question like this. An engineer who works in Material and petrochemical field even for a period of one or two years knows what is P.M.S or M.S.D.
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DVader1000 Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Anywhere Emperor Palpatine assigns me Posts: 2774 Good Answers: 101	#14 In reply to #13 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/23/2010 7:41 AM
	Would it have killed you to just simply state what you mean? MSD could also mean material safety data as in MSDS, and for that matter, how do we know that by PMS you don't mean Process Method Statement? By the way the most common meaning for PMS was what I stated. Really, what is it about guys like you that you always find the need to blame others for your own mistakes? __________________ If only you knew the power of the Dark Side of the Force
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cingold Guru Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 519 Good Answers: 11	#15 In reply to #13 Re: Creating P.M.S 08/23/2010 7:48 AM
	I'll be honest. I only took a look at this article for the jokes based on your title. I mean come on...it writes itself. Just kidding.
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This discussion was "closed" on 08/23/2010 8:25 AM. No new comments are allowed.
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Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); cingold (1); DVader1000 (2); dvmdsc (1); Farzad Jalali (2); jack of all trades (1); redfred (2); sue (2); Tobugrynbak (2); zeng210210210 (1)

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