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Spun a Rod Bearing

08/23/2010 11:28 PM

I red lined it a couple of times a few weeks ago, then I got an oil change, and the next day did some highway driving, and that's when the knocking started. Is it normal for the knocking to come this much latter after the redlining? I'm trying to determine if it's from the beating or they put the wrong oil in?

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#1

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 1:10 AM

Not knowing what your car make, model or motor option is makes it a tad difficult to pontificate on your query.

That said, Redlining a motor though not recommended usually only shortens the service life. Depending of course on the manner in which it has been previously maintained, how old it is and whether it is a "performance" motor or one of the "vanilla" types.

Engine bearing failure is usually catastrophic, that is, from the point of first failure to when the motor is no longer viable takes only minutes.

Now of course there are a number of different things which will knock that are oil dependant.

Hydraulic tappets will "knock" if there is insufficient oil pressure or level. Depending on the type of motor it will sound like just a little rattle or perhaps like the chorus from the "Anvil Song".

Big end (Conrod) failure will present itself as a knock consistent with RPM, and will come from the low in the block. This is usually accompanied by oil pressure loss.

Main bearing loss will present itself as a seemingly uncoordinated knock low in the block and loss of oil pressure.

If your motor has a timing chain, it too may knock if there isn't sufficient oil pressure to keep the tensioner in play. If it's not an automatic tensioner it may be one of the guides has failed.

I'd first check to see if there is sufficient oil in the engine, second I'd try to determine what oil it is, it has been known for automatic transmission fluid to be pumped into the motor instead of motor oil by inattentive grease monkeys. They do smell dramatically different. In this case transmission oil will smell "burnt' and will be a red colour, where as motor oil will be a honey brown colour.

You could of course have a faulty oil filter (that's if they changed it) which is leading to poor oil pressure.

There are many variables to choose from and it's the sort of thing that really needs to be observed directly for a proper diagnosis.

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#2

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 5:03 AM

drain the oil and keep it, refill with oil you have bought using the correct grade if noise is still there its not the oil

how far over red line did you go and for how long

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 6:03 AM

Don't forget to Change the Oil filter at the same time. The Oil filter usually holds anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 litre (0.055 US Gal to 0.165 US Gal) of oil on top of what is in the sump.

A Z9/Z30 oil filter will hold around 3/4 litre (0.165 US Gal)

a Z89A oil filter holds about 1/4 litre (0.055 US Gal)

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#4

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 4:14 PM

You also could have collapsed a valve lifter.

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#5

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 5:51 PM

The mechanic looked at it, said it's done, lower end knock. It knocks only when rev'd, and is timed to a piston movement.

The car is a 2000 cavalier, with 150,000 KMs, (or miles)

I only rev'd it to the red 2 times, when passing. It went far into the red, don't know only glanced at it.

I read on the net a lot of different opinions on what to do with a spun bearing. Some say buy a new bearing and rod, and polish the crank journal if it's not to damaged, if it's too damaged, then buy a used crank for around $150. Some say the engine is junk, and one even used thread lock on the rod to hold the bearing!

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 6:59 PM

2000 cavalier with 150,000 on it........It's junk, IMO.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/25/2010 8:21 AM

All Cavaliers are junk! It has nothing to do with mileage. Buy a Ford.

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#12
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Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/25/2010 9:59 AM

Yes, Cavaliers are pretty much disposable cars. On the other hand, I have 1986 GMC truck with close to 400,000 on it, with some work on my part.

Ford puts out some trash also, the Fiesta and the Escort come to mind.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 7:26 PM

It would probably be easier/quicker/cheaper to replace the motor with either a known good motor from the car wreckers or a GM crate motor than rebuilding the one that's in it.

Depending on which variant of the motor you have, it shouldn't be so difficult to get a replacement motor.

Rebuilding these "Modern" GM motors is usually an expensive exercise, as GM charge hard for spare parts.

To repair the motor entails a total rebuild. While you have it apart you may as well do the job properly. Replacing the crank, conrods and pistons, all bearings, maybe go to the next oversize in the bores and pistons. While the heads off, send it away to be reconditioned. You will probably wind up with a long list of other things to replace while your at it. If you can do the spanner work yourself its probably worth it.

It's only a Cavalier, not a Cadillac but it's your car and money. Only you know what it is worth to you and how much you are willing to throw at it to get it going again.

150,000km or even miles isn't much on a well maintained motor, but on one that wasn't so well looked after, probably about right.

Yup the net is a mine of useless information if you look hard enough.

A spun bearing usually spreads a whole lot of metal filings through the motor, you would only just replace that bearing in a pinch to get you to someplace to rebuild the motor properly. Or to just get the motor running "nice" to off load the car onto some other poor schmuck.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 11:28 PM

Hi there,

DO NOT use thread lock on the rod to hold the bearing as this acts as an insulating film and will NOT allow bearing generated heat to dissipate through the bearing/con rod fit which is designed as a heatsink also.

cryogen

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#8

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 10:59 PM

Typical Bow-tie bull shit! Sounds like you spun a rod bearing and you would have to turn the crank, resize the rods and replace the bearings. Might be cheaper and quicker to replace the engine, but I warn you GM charges as much for a crate four cylinder as they do for a V8!

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/25/2010 2:01 PM

I'd rather have a V-8!

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#9

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/24/2010 11:09 PM

You may also have piston failure. It is possible to drop a piece of the skirt and the piston is able rock, with interesting results if not attended to.

I have red-lined many vehicles without failures. The high ks of this one may mean that the bearings did not get enough oil and have run.

How regularly do you change oil and filter. If clogged, the filter could limit the oil supply and you end up with too much heat and the bearing melts. The oil supply is not so much for slipperiness, more for cooling.

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#14

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/26/2010 9:59 PM

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that we get a heck of alot of inquiries on Chevy Cavalier here on CR4... way beyond what we get on other makes and models. I have concluded that I NEVER EVER will buy one. I have owned several other Chevys over the years which I was very happy with, but I won't touch this one.

Bill

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/27/2010 12:04 AM

In Oz these started out as the "JB Camira" part of the GM World Car strategy.

It was the same car as the Vauxhall, and Opel only badged for the individual markets they were sold in.

They were never much more than a bread and butter car.

The funniest thing i saw was on the runout of the JB model they introduced a "sports pack" which was only a set of alloy wheels (the same size as the stock steel ones)the higher spec interior with a choice of body colours, Electric Blue, Orange, Yellow and a sort of lime green. They had a special stripe applied to them with the logo "SJ" (I kid you not) You'll never guess what we called them in the trade...

They were good for what they were but not much more.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/27/2010 6:04 PM

Hum, i had an 89 chev cavalier that was a very good car.

Traded about $400 worth of work for it and i drove it for almost 2 yrs, delivering pizza at night.

sold it to my ex for 500, bought it back 6 months later for 350, drove it another 6 months, sold it to my g/f for 300, bought it back, drove it a few more months then sold it again for $500.

got about 4 good years out of it, and still saw it running around town 2 yrs later.

Dump the oil, change the filter and oil pump if you can.

fill it back up with a 50/50 mix of good 20w50 motor oil and lucasoil. Dont spend any more money than that on it.

Go easy with it, stay off the interstate. pay $5 a month for aaa roadside assistance,and drive it till it dies. It will still be worth 200-300 in scrap metal at current prices.

mine had 240,000 miles on it the last time i sold it.

My mom had an old, 70 somthing pontiac that knocked for over 5 years, but still ran every day, till my youngest brother got his drivers licence, and crashed it within 24 hours, lol.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/28/2010 10:08 PM

It knocked for all those years?

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Spun a Rod Bearing

08/29/2010 7:57 PM

yep, it was making a pretty distinct knocking, probably from a rod bearing, from the sound of it. None of us would drive it on the interstate, but around town it just kept going and going... never left anyone stranded, till the little bro crashed it. As a matter of fact, he still drove it home, but the front end was all messed up, and the bumper/wheel well had trashed the tire. So we finally junked it out. Had an old 300 6 cyl ford econoline van that knocked for at least 6 months,too, before we finally rebuilt the engine. That was one of my uncles landscape vans. Another beater in the run it till it dies catagory. But it wouldnt die, so it finally got rebuilt.

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