Patent Process

http://www.bing.com/search?srch=106&FORM=AS6&q=applying+for+a+patent&adlt=strict

A good start would be to spend a few hours doing a search of your design on googlepatent for US patents.

Good luck.

Vince

Well Dwight,

Congratulations. I'm not sure if you are pitching, or refuting my statement?

It is easier to just go to the USPTO site.

There the answers are correct at least.

If you are implying that individuals here do not have the correct answers than what is the point of this site. My answers are facts. If you can contribute other than posting the USPTO site I would be interested. I gave www.patentstorm as a reference because it is free and you can search foreign patents as well. You cannot download patent copies on the USPTO site unless you pay.

I have downloaded a few hundred patents in my searches at the USPTO site. If you mean they do not have a 'download' button I suppose you are correct but copy paste seems to work just as well.

Refuting with references from real life experience.

I agree with Lynlynch and DaveB, finding a patent agent or patent attorney is the best first step, unless you really know what you are doing. They will be able to do the patent search, and determine whether or not the design is patentable, which are the next steps. Then you will have to decide which territories you want it to cover, US only, US and Europe, Global, etc. You might find that it is not worth the expense of trying to cover certain territories where a patent might be virtually undefendable.

Which Country ? This is a world wide webb site

Links to help get you started but please give more information not about the invention but your location

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=patent&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GZEU_en&redir_esc=&ei=4Fd4TPO3OJXc4AayisTdBg

http://webdb1.patent.gov.uk/types/patent.htm

You can pay an attorney or do much of the work yourself. There is always the risk that someone will use your idea without paying you. The better the invention, the bigger the risk. You have the option of filing a provisional application. A provisional gives you a one year window of legal protection, while you decide whether to file for a patent. During this year you can explore your options and decide how/whether to proceed, and which countries you want to file in. Best wishes in your endeavor.

Basically the same thing the USPTO site says. The site really does a pretty decent job of explaining.

I suggest an in depth reading of that site is the first step - not a quick skimming but in depth study. Then one would have an idea of what to ask a patent agent about rather than being in 'shock & awe' of the process.

Very nice explanation. I suggest, however, that OP's question about how to obtain a patent on a design, doesn't mean he requires design patent information. Most of our patents issue as utility patents that describe how something works. They are based on novel and innovative design. For us, the advantage of provisional patents is that we can file low cost applications and have a year of protection while we explore potential business options. It's difficult to obtain financing if you can't describe the invention in detail.

Nice - evenhanded - GA

This subject was covered in depth in a previous thread. You may find it will answer many of your questions and more.

Good luck from a fellow inventor.

How to Patent a Technology With No Budget for a Prototype

A patent is a legal document that allows you to plead your case in court if you wish to defend your claim. Do not start the patent process unless you have the resources of cash and time to defend your claim. It is a salable or transferable item.

Steps:

Develop a novel idea

If possible divide and file for both the method and the novelty

Carefully describe every aspect of your method and device

Research the internet patent data base literature for similar claims made

Seek legal council

Prepare your patent application for submission to the US patent and trademark office

The claim will be rejected on the basis of several arguements

Respond to the arguements with refinements of your claim if possible

If the claim is accepted then you are issued a patent for the country of submission

If you wish to apply for patents in other countries, file calims in the appropriate jurisdictions. (Europe now has an EU calims office for all included countries)

Yearly you must pay for the continuance of your claim enforcement to the respective agencies. Failure to do so will result in loss of your calim and the idea will become part of public domain. There is a patent expiration date that varies from 18 to 22 years. Claims may be extended on the basis of new application with claimable improvements from the original application.

In some countries there are no agencies for defense of your claims and your patent can be violated as a "knock-off" with no recourse.

Once your claim is made it will become public knowledge and other calimants may superceed your claim with improvements. This is called "progress".

If you majke no claim and do not disclose it to anuyone your idea is termed "black art". It never becomes part of public domain and in many instances is better than a patent if you can commercialize your idea.

I presume that a "black art" is an invention that necessarily contains parts or processes that are so novel or hidden as not to be functional unless you know the 'secret recipe', and therefore unreproducible. Is that correct?

Black art is information, ideas, designs, recipe, that is not disclosed to the public and is usually a closely kept secret. It is not public domain and may be the core knowledge of a business. An example is the formulation for the Coca Cola bottled pop flavoring. Some information can be disclosed in a patent and thereby protected by law for a period of time. Methods to acheive the process or to manufacture the design may be held as black art thereby preventing competition from capitalizing on the patent regardless of other disclosures.

Disclosure or nondisclosure of information may be an important part of a business plan and should be part of a carefully planned patent application.

Hi Closs

If you want to treat this endeavor as a hobby think again. It will take all the above and then a bit to get all into place and then keep it there. It is a hard act to follow but if you tread carefully and be diligent about the process, it can be done.

All advice given here in this thread is well meant by the posters which show there are many ways to skin a cat. Someone mentioned "gut feeling" which is fine but complete pragmatism is better and will attract potential investors who have no interest in feelings of whatever kind.

As many others have done I wish you good luck and hope you are not disillusioned by the difficulties, complexities which will pop up, whatever you do. Coming up with an invention is the smallest part of the exercise. Convincing others to invest is the much harder part. Be aware that investors are bombarded with opportunities of all kinds. They have no time for sentimentality, ever.

Bringing "it" to the market is as complicated as starting a war. Like in Chess, there is always someone better at it and only playing the game repeatedly will make you a winner, maybe, one day? Offers can be traps or seem like sacrifices and when one comes to the end game one needs to be good and safe in every position.

Playing the patent game is for keeps and a powerful industry relies on it. I have commented on this matter in past threads which has portrayed a hard done by, bitter attitude of mine. Let me say now that I have mellowed a bit and only the recognition of the fact; that, to be successful as an inventor, one has to be much more than a tinkerer.

If your chances are good you have a 1:1000 chance of return on investment

If your chances are realistic you have a 1:10.000 chance ..........................

If you want a million $$ return? Well, you work it out. You will have to have your act together and share as good as you can. Good partners don't stand around at street corners, they have to be convinced by showing them a business plan. Nobody will do it for you, you have to learn the game to be able to play it and enjoy the ride.

It will not be easy going.There are no first aid stops by the side of the road! Yes, compare it to wanting to win the Tour de France, not just participate in it for the heck of it. Creating a good team surrounding you can work wonders. Honesty?

Inventing is a team sport. If it keeps you happy, why not? Ky.

Someone mentioned "gut feeling" which is fine but complete pragmatism is better and will attract potential investors who have no interest in feelings of whatever kind.

Read the context! Gut feeling has nothing to do attracting investors; it means, to listen to your gut feeling as one of many mechanisms to avoid being fleeced! As an example, 30 years ago I had an idea and wanted develop it so bad that when an investor came around I ignored an un-easy feeling I had about the guy. Other people in my company had a similar feeling. It eventually came back to haunt me and cost me $250,000.00,a and the business. Sometimes you need to listen to your stomach! If you don't understand that you will lose your idea to someone.

If your chances are good you have a 1:1000 chance of return on investment

If your chances are realistic you have a 1:10.000 chance ..........................

I would like to see the reference for these statistics. I doubt that there is one. Magic numbers?

Dear masterblaster

If you wish to correspond with me I would suggest you choose a more friendly tone. I have the gut feeling you are out to split hairs. Sorry glad I don't fit into your reference orientated world view.

You know, if you would have asked "could you please give a reference to the numbers given, I doubt they are correct?" I would have sat down and done so. This way you will have to do it alone, if you are interested in "magic numbers"(?) that is.

I stand to what the chances (statistics) of a single identity inventor are, in successfully applying, being granted and getting an invention to the market and making a dollar out of it. It is a lottery unless supported by a willing and knowledgeable team of highly paid professionals.

We are not talking about old cracks like us here but were asked by a new comer and to give advice. I am being cautious and you are bragging away like it would be a game with clear set rules and instructions. I find that misleading and dangerous. I would not even have reacted to your rant if it where not for the original posters advantage.

Patent Process

You know I am developing this gut feeling that you could be an agent for some patent help/support company, like the Davidson's of this world. They use a similar language and make it all look so simple and trust us and we have done it a thousand times before.

I know this is not the case but just your wording and the easy peasyness of your success story could be very misleading to a novice, as the OP possibly is one.

You must be a lucky man and I hope all goes well for you. With all due respect, lets be honest here, the process of patenting is a hard act to follow, successfully. Let the new comer be warned, Ky.

Dear ky

You assume anything you like; I have heard and seen to many people that have negative attitudes towards the little guy and success in patenting a device. I am bored to death with whiners (not meaning you) blaming big business and government for what is inevitably their own failures or fears. I sell my own technology and have no interest of any kind in anyone's ideas for profit. I am not affiliated with any agents and do not believe in them.

I am not "lucky" I work hard to educate myself and to succeed. It is a lottery unless supported by a willing and knowledgeable team of highly paid professionals. I do not agree with this statement at all. I have never used a team never less highly paid ones. I can see that if one is use to a large company full of bureaucrats having meetings 50 times a day that it would give an allusion that it is all necessary but it is not. I work alone. When I have studied the market and developed and tested the prototypes and completed the prior art searches and laid out my claims I then contact my lawyer and say "file it".

I am not bragging this is reality in my world and my story.

No one said it was easy; I just like to encourage people rather than discourage. There is no good in that.

I know this is not the case but just your wording and the easy peasyness of your success story could be very misleading to a novice, as the OP possibly is one. Sorry that I did not dwell on the many times that I have been shafted but no one was asking how to fail. Failing is also part of the game and I was willing and have put it all on the line many times and paid the consequences, good and bad.

You know, if you would have asked "could you please give a reference to the numbers given, I doubt they are correct?" I would have sat down and done so. This way you will have to do it alone, if you are interested in "magic numbers"(?) that is. I stand behind my statement. If you are going to quote statistics it is always good to back them up with references, else people may not take them serious.

Good luck to all Inventors and I will always encourage you.

"The world is not short on money it is short on ideas"

I see. I did not mean to be disrespectful and have a better idea of were you are coming from by now. I am practically in a very similar position and have repeatedly failed and am part of a steep learning curve and enjoy the process by now. The more I can do on my own the better.

The statistics I threw in are what I have seen somewhere and I can't remember the source. To ad a bit of humor, 89% of statistics are made up on the spot. We are pulling the same string in the end and you are right about:

"The world is not short on money it is short on ideas"

Let me ad that it also lacks people like you and me, who have the tenacity, intelligence, determination to learn and a vision to follow. All I was trying to say was that it is not an occupation for the fainthearted and novices have to be made aware of the dangers involved. I suppose we are doing that here and now.

Good luck and persevere all you inventors but be prepared for a tough ride, Ky

ky

Agreed and good luck to your future endeavors.

Thanks, good we are on the same page, Ky.

Dear masterblaster

from:Midnight Engineering

24.0 Copyright c 1997 by Don Lancaster and Synergetics (520) 428-4073 www.tinaja.com All commercial rights and all electronic media rights fully reserved.

My first guess is 500:1. Or thereabouts. Five hundred wellthought out and carefully considered initial ideas for everyultimate out-the-door product.The Batelle Memorial Institute is a highly reputable oldline invention development firm.

They accept around 4000ideas per year, and end up with 8 useful ones.One of the more blatantly misbehaving "idea marketing"firms discloses that of 2500 ideas accepted, only 5 wereactually licensed to a third party. Of these a mere onegenerated a worthwhile net positive cash flow.

Once again,the odds seem to be 500:1.Note that all gambling casinos offer odds ridiculouslybetter than 500:1, as do most state lotteries.The 500:1 figure assumes that you are a knowledgeableindustry insider. Who aggressively uses the trade journals,professional associations, and online resources. And whothoroughly understands the engineering, mathematical,marketing, distribution, and economic underpinnings forthe target field.

If you are an outsider, your odds are likelyto end up worse than 1,000,000:1 instead.Simply because the gotchas will git ya. Every time.

Believe it or not a friend sent me this yesterday. He did not know I had it somewhere already and this way I needed not to research. These were the stats I remembered, and if you find the whole article you might agree that this guy is onto something, Ky.

There is a little, highly important subject, slightly touched on, of "will it make money". I suggest spending time with our friends at Google to check similar patents, which was suggested previously, but look at these similar patents that have been issued (paid for), the dates and the fact that these patents ARE NEVER HEARD OF AGAIN! A patent is a waste of time and substantial money unless there is a buyer! Sure there is personal prides etc but for the many thousands of $, I think not. The patent lawyers, offices, anyone that I have found will not tell you the idea has the potential to make $. You need to do this. This is proper as who would have guessed the "pet rock" would be a money maker. (No, I do not know if it was patented.) I currently hold three patents, two corporate, one mine.

Hi Carlos

You still here? Just want to know if you were 'just asking' or if you were on your way to make life hard for your self.

Good luck, Ky.

Hi KY,

Life hard for myself?

Elaborate........please

Thanks

Hi Carlos

I meant to say, if you are still listening to the different view points given here by many contributors and if it is making life or decisions easier for you? It happens all the time here on CR4 that people ask questions and then disappear into thin air and it is not known if any thing we contributed has helped.

Good to know your still around anyway, Ky.

If when I search for patents on Patent Storm, and I find a patent, does that mean it is up to date and all the fees have been paid? If someone does not pay those fees does the patent come off the patent list? Does it become public domain automatically or does it take a number of years?

Michael,

Assuming that you are talking about U.S. patents, as you probably know, for a utility patent, maintenance fees are due at 3.5, 7,5, and 11.5 years after issue. Patents are of public record, and so they will always be available for review, regardless of whether they have expired or not. In fact, that's one of the major points of our patent system - that the applicant has to provide a complete "enabling disclosure" on how to make and use the invention in the patent description, in exchange for the limited monopoly of having the right to exclude others from doing so for the term of the patent. (20 years from the filing date in the U.S.) That's how the public benefits from patents. We get the complete recipe to make and use the invention, which we can do free of charge after the patent expires.

I don't think you can check on the status of maintenance fee payments at Patent Storm, but you can at the USPTO website. Go to the home page there. Then on the next page click on eBusiness/Alerts in the black bar near the top. Then in the right column (tan) on the next page, click on Revenue and Accounting Management. Then on the next page click on Pay or Look Up Maintenance Fees. You're almost done. Enter in the patent number and the application number (available on the cover page of the patent) that you are interested in and click "get Bibliographic Data." A page with the status of the maintenance fees will appear. If the patent has expired for non-payment of MFs, it will indicate that.

jhammond

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www.patent-innovations.com

Again GA - It's a pity you put your post 'off topic', so I won't mine in the hope folk read yours, which I'm responding to.

But, if I may precis a bit; if the payment has lapsed - so has the monopoly right - or the 'invention is free to use' ahead of time.

34.5 - Well... I'm new to this off topic thing, and it was off topic from Carlos' question, so I thought I should label it OT. But it was still about patents, so not off off topic I guess.

If a patent expires before its full term for non-payment of maintenance fees, it is in the public domain and free for anyone to practice without royalty. When a fee payment deadline passes, the patent owner has a six-month grace period in which to pay the fee with a late surcharge. Then the patent expires, and the expiration is published in the USPTO Official Gazette. If the non-payment was unintentional, the patent owner may petition to revive and pay a large fee to do so. But anyone who has begun to use the invention or made preparations to do so during the period of expiration may have "intervening rights" to continue to do so. For a bit more detailed summary of maintenance fees, please see our one page LM article on the topic.

jhammond

____________________________

www.patent-innovations.com

It is very constructive to have you around jhammond

Although my dislike of the industry you work for/in is well documented I see that your contributions are of enormous value or could be for some. I think placing your link in your bio is a good enough hint to let people decide to get in touch with you and the services you provide. I do the same with my more arts orientated link in my bio.

I think all of us can agree on the fact that patenting is a very complex undertaking and that it can be very frustrating to get reliable, honest and constructive answers. These gray areas can be very confusing for the novice and not all procedures are as straight forward as they seem to be. Thanks for clearing up that agent position, you must have an interesting and challenging profession.

Knowing more about what you do, I might even get in touch with you regarding a matter I have been working on. This is not going to happen soon but it will have to happen one day. I'll hang in there for the time being and don't let any one call you names, your contribution here deserves better, Ky.

Ky and 34.5, thank you for your feedback, and ky, best wishes for success on the "matter you've been working on."

jhammond

Thanks J,

I have an 'innovation' I have been working on and will now do my patent search. I am too old to begin a career in 'inventing' or,, maybe not. I do love the research it takes and throughly appreciate and admire all the answers that all the respondents on CR4 give.

You are all quite a bunch of multi-talented individuals. I only wish I had pursued this process years ago. Thank you all again.

J., I could only find one patent that came close to what I am doing. It expired 10 years ago. How much of that patent can I quote in my patent filing? If I were to take some of his patent ideas and reuse it in mine would that be illegal? There are some differences in design and construction, but the concept is similar.

J, Is there a format that one should follow? I have read(or tried to) several patents and they are very laborious and repetitive(or so it seems). It's almost like the more one says the better it is. Is all of this on the patent website so I don't have to ask you to reinvent the wheel? Was it you who mentioned provisional patents? Are they worth while?

M, Regarding format, in the US, there is a format requested by the Patent Office, but not legally required. It is Background, Summary (of the invention), Brief Description of Drawings, Detailed Description, Claims, and Abstract. I'm sure you can find more details on the USPTO website, don't have time to dig up a link for you at the moment. If nothing else, Google MPEP Chapter 600 and you will get the link to the chapter in the Manual of Patent Examining Procedure, which has excruciating detail.

Saying more is not necessarily better, particularly wrt the prior art. But also wrt the invention - saying a particular feature is critical, essential, etc. can have a significant downside. There are many other examples.

Provisional applications can be useful in that they can be filed at lower cost (claims and formal drawings not required), and can be prepared in a somewhat shorter time (good in an emergency), while establishing a filing date for the application. A non-provisional app must be filed within a year and claim priority to the provisional, meaning the NPA gets the benefit of the filing date of the provisional IF all of the features in the claims were described in the provisional. A provisional app must meet the same statutory requirements wrt quality of disclosure - it must provide a description sufficiently detailed such that one of "ordinary skill in the art" would be enabled to practice the invention, and it must disclose the best mode of the invention known to the inventor at the time of filing. A provisional app should never just be slapped together and filed, such as putting a cover sheet on copies of lab notebook pages, a powerpoint presentation, or a manuscript for a journal article and then filing it.

The Patent Office has plenty more info on provisionals. We also have a couple articles on them - the basics here and the risks of filing a crappy (legal term for poor quality) provisional application here.

Finally, while not recommending that you prepare and file your own application, I think that you would find the book "Patent It Yourself" by David Pressman to be quite informative. It covers the basics very well.

jhammond

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www.patent-innovations.com

J.

Thank you very much. I am impressed with your knowledge and the unselfish way you offer it to the very ignorant of us.

You never know when I might be able to return the favor.

Thanks again,

Michael

Good comments and suggestions with no smoke - GA from me.

Russ

I'm very thankful for all of the opinions, I have learn a lot from this forum. To those who follow the CR4 I will be posting later on What it became of my idea.

Thank you,

Carlos R