Previous in Forum: Inter Turn Fault in the Rotor   Next in Forum: Diesel Generator Questions
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/28/2010 5:58 AM

Hi CR4 members

My friend work in a paper mill which have a very old paper machine. He discussed with me that they are going to install AC vector drives with AC motors replacement of old motors. I told to him that paper machine require very fine speed control and synchronization but he told that vector drives can perform as they don't have budget for encoder feed back drives which are too costly.

What do the engineers in this forum thought? I want also know the different techniques of AC motor control.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#1

Re: Which type of drive suitable?

08/28/2010 7:00 AM

I've worked on printing machines ages ranging from the 60's through to the 2000's all used DC drives with tacho feed back.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#4
In reply to #1

Re: Which type of drive suitable?

08/28/2010 12:00 PM

You will find at points throughout the process slack take up points. These control the speed of the preceding process, too much slack slow down the infeed, too little speed up. The speed control does have a little leeway in it.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
Good Answers: 169
#2

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/28/2010 9:03 AM

Today's AC Motors with VFDs do offer a very fine speed control. But, it depends upon the speed control methodology adopted (viz.) V/F Control or Flux Vector Control or Closed Loop Vector Control.

The selection of the methodology depends upon the requirement of the driven equipment, like response to speed changes, speed control range, speed control accuracy, etc.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Nashville TN USA
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 9
#3

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/28/2010 9:26 AM

At some point, it does take money to do some things. It is always possible to build your own motors or endoders and feedback system, or go with some large stepper motors or servo motors, but I would guess going with the proper feedback controls similar to what has been used in the past is still the least expensive in the long term.

Oh yes, the steppers are not AC motors but are finely controlled DC motors and may have feedback loops with encoders, but not all do. Servo's are AC motors with significant control system associated with them, again, some don't have encoders and some do. The more control you need, the more you need the encoders.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/28/2010 12:13 PM

Methinks a Paper Machine is just a tad outside the realm of stepper motors...

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haverhill, MA
Posts: 1149
Good Answers: 151
#6

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/28/2010 4:23 PM

I believe that AC Vector drives have the capability to control torque and speed in a closed loop system. However, you need to compare the cost of replacing and redeveloping an existing DC motor control system. No matter what type of system you use, you will need some type of feed back in order to control it.

__________________
The older I am, the better I used to be
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 930
Good Answers: 31
#7

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/29/2010 8:42 AM

My experience is limited to the dry end of paper making machine and in four plants I worked in the drive and speed was controlled by DC motors. I assume there was a good reason, two plants were very old and two were very new at the time.

__________________
The fine line between cuddling and holding one down to prevent escape must be learned
Reply
2
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brick, NJ
Posts: 71
Good Answers: 8
#8

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/29/2010 10:22 AM

I work in a paper mill and we use AC drives (ABB ACS600) but do have tach feedback. You friend may be able to get away with them if they take a lot of time to characterize and tune them. And yes, there are things you can do with draw between sections to minimize issues. But multiple drives in a single section can be a bear to tune without tachs. But if the machine is old (like some of ours) the sections are geared together with a single drive that's not an issue. But my feeling is that without good speed feedback, the startup will take so long that management will reassess what 'costly' really means.

__________________
Do this. Don't do that. Can't you redesign?
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: Which Type of Drive Suitable for Paper Mill?

08/31/2010 5:26 AM

You can have open or closed loop vector control. For your application you'll definately requirer closed loop, using an encoder. This will provide you with the speed match control you require. The encoder isn't a large expense on top of the whole cost of the project. I've used Eurotherm/Parker SSD 690+ inverter (vector) drives controlled by they're fibreoptic LINK system. I'd steer clear of the fibreoptic LINK system, as it's proved very temperamental and problematic. I believe they have a similar system using Firewire, this sounds a much stabiler platform. I'm sure other manufacturers do similar systems, check them out.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 9 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

andrew_ward (1); Anonymous Poster (2); electricalexpert65 (1); gringogreg (1); roy hammy (1); servant74 (1); TonyS (2)

Previous in Forum: Inter Turn Fault in the Rotor   Next in Forum: Diesel Generator Questions
You might be interested in: AC Motor Drives, DC Motor Drives, Hard Drives

Advertisement