Previous in Forum: Generator IPB Sizing   Next in Forum: Wanting to Know More and More
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8

Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/04/2010 11:40 AM

Please consider:

Single Phase Panel, 120/240, 150 Amp Feed, 1/0 THHN CU Supply Conductors.

Several 120 and 240 volt circuits, in a common conduit to a remote junction box, then to loads.

---> Run full-sized neutral conductor (1/0), in the common conduit, to a neutral bus in the remote J-box and connect individual neutrals there, rather than running individual neutral conductors back to the breaker panel neutral bus.

Intent: Maximum Voltage available at loads. Theoretically, if the load is balanced (no neutral current) then the voltage drop is half of the normal home-run scenario. Any imbalance would flow in the full-size neutral, keeping the drop close to half.

The copper wire economics are such that the individual neutral conductors would cost as much as the single neutral.

Is there some practical or design reason why this would be disallowed? Unaware of any precedent, but do not wish to pop an inspector breaker.

Cool site, and thanks for your thoughts.

Robert Kennett, San Diego

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#1

Re: Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/04/2010 11:54 AM

One disadvantage is from the viewpoint of fault finding.

To me it's better if all feeds from a panel have there corresponding neutral along side them in the main terminal chamber.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#2

Re: Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/04/2010 3:13 PM

Anyone who knows me, knows that I love to understand the theory behind any engineering discipline. But this is an aspect of electricity that theory should be the last thing considered.

Follow your local code and regulations to meet your conditions!

There are many aspects of electrical power distribution code that have nothing to do with the laws of electricity (safe failure modes of electrical insulation, local insect infestations, expansion and contraction of conductors under varying temperature extremes, emergency personnel expectations) to name just a few.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/04/2010 5:27 PM

Fred-

1010-0100 and Thanks!

My work is noted for meeting and wining and dining the local code and regulations. I am particularly interested in the history of and reasons for why distribution is done as it is, a bit of an enthusiast concerning the whys and why-nots.

I worked in a plant where I found the 3-phase 4-wire supply conductors for a bussbar system were run 2 phases in one pipe, phase and a neutral in another. Drove me crazy, they wouldn't correct it. Inspected and passed as installed by a local contractor. They just didn't know that you must not do that, unless you are intent on heating things up.

I'm currently refurbishing a 100 kVA resistance welder that has 480/3/60 primary and a half-wave rectified secondary that runs at 20,000 amps, so I am right in the middle of heating things up! That rascal is braced for some serious current stresses, is liquid cooled, and I'm paying attention to Micro-Ohms.

I appreciate Tony's input about being able to lift a neutral for fault finding, at the point of circuit origination. In the remote neutral bus scenario, that need would still be met, albeit a bit less conveniently.

I would most certainly chat up a local inspector before proceeding. I find that departures from the norm can be challenging to a regulatory mindset, so I thought I'd solicit input here before proceeding.

Again, the intent would be to cut the voltage drop in half for a given wire size, by relocating the neutral bus.

Thanks again

Robert

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/04/2010 6:58 PM

I've seen neutrals shared

and I've seen it work well

and I've seen some nasty things happen

and I've learned never to do that just because of one word - harmonics

taught me some very very good lessons

Stub

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Remote Neutral Bus: Voltage Drop Minimization

09/05/2010 10:34 PM

Stub-

After reading your post, I went off on a quest for understanding harmonics, and found-

"The main problems associated with harmonic currents are:

- Overloading of neutrals is caused because 3rd (and any triple-N) harmonics do not have 120° Phase shifts and so add instead of cancelling in the neutral".

( http://www.rose-hulman.edu/class/ee/HTML/ECE471/PDFs/Lect15.pdf )

(Might want to read 180° for the single-phase center-tapped system I am looking at)

Give a man a fish, he'll have a meal. Teach a man to fish... Thanks for the lesson!

Considering harmonics, I'll stand down on this exercise.

RK

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 5 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); redfred (1); Scoutryder (2); TonyS (1)

Previous in Forum: Generator IPB Sizing   Next in Forum: Wanting to Know More and More

Advertisement