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Oil Foaming

10/25/2010 8:06 AM

how foaming of oil occurs?

what will be the effect of foaming on mixing two oils

1- of different viscosity index

2- of same viscosity index

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#1

Re: Oil Foaming

10/25/2010 11:52 AM

what absurd experiments you want us to undertake and tell you results?

Why do you not do this yourself?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 2:01 AM

He does not want to try it in his car - better to get someone else to use theirs.

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#3

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 2:12 AM

This is a serious question, oil is not only used in cars but has many more applications. Moreover, you can only answer the part what is foaming in oil, if you know, otherwise its Ok

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 2:30 AM

The question indicates that you have no idea about lubricants and their properties at all.

Best - talk to your local supplier and if his answers are not adequate just try the next step up the suppliers chain.

Lubricants and additives to them are a very complex subject to say the least.

We are well aware that lubricants are used in other applications than cars - I expect that I have signed purchase orders for more than you can imagine for many and varied usages.

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#5

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 9:15 AM

Foaming occurs when air, or other gas, is mechanically introduced into the oil.

I suppose there could be some chemical reactions that induce foaming, too.

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#6

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 3:11 PM

Sorry for the Shouting down of your question UsmanS. It is a good question for this ENGINEERING forum.

How foaming of oil occurs?

In old oils in use, Foaming generally starts because of a reaction between water and the steel parts that creates ferric hydroxide. This ferric hydroxide being basic, then reacts with various acidic components in the oil (The sulfur and phosphorous additives are acidic) and upon reaction with ferric hydoxide, create reaction products Various metalic salts)which form Foam.

It is not the water itself, but the water having attacked the steel that creates the foaming. It is the reaction products! Taking new oil and water, will not get you foam.

Once you know that it is the metal salts that cause the foam, you now have a way to chemically determine when to replace the oil...

And since we now know the role of water in the creation of the foaming problem, we can formulate additives (Specifically dehydrating agents) to tie up the water to prevent it from acting on the steel or ferrous parts in the gear drive, etc..Depending on the make up oil, anhydrous sulphates of potassium or sodium, or calcium oxide or annhydrous calcium chloride being inorganic will tie up the water, but being ionic, will not dissolve in oil. if particle size is fine enough, they will disperse keeping the water /metallic salts in a form not capable of promoting foaming. (there are other ways besides these)

What will be the effect on foaming of mixing of two oils?

Pretty broad question, but I will attempt to use my above reasoning to guide you to a conclusion.

1) if the oils are brand new, probably no foam;

2) If the oil(s) are old, and have had water contamination, and were used in a gearbox or device with steel parts, then depending on age of oil and the level of ferric hydroxide, foaming might occur.

3 As others have pointed out, you are now free to do a trial, and also by the way know several things to look for in the oil in order to understand what contributes to foaming.

Hope this helps, and do let us know how things work out.

Milo

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 3:30 PM

Milo,

Thanks for the sanity, and the excellent primer on oil foaming.

Lyn

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 3:40 PM
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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Oil Foaming

10/27/2010 5:26 AM

I have seen brand new oil foam. In Argentina years back someone cross indexed Shell or another internationally supplied with - YPF (a local oil company) supplies to get an equivalent.

Turned out the basic grade was the same but additives were very different. Thought the German factory rep from KKK was going to have a heart attack when he saw the foamy mess in his compressors lube systems.

That is why I suggested working with the local supplier.

As the user one has to be very knowledgeable, or very brave and possibly pure fool to go substituting oils without the manufacturers OK - certainly in any guaranteed equipment.

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#9

Re: Oil Foaming

10/26/2010 11:47 PM

Thank u Milo

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ducon (1); lyn (2); Milo (2); russ123 (3); UsmanS (2)

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