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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4

Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/30/2010 3:11 AM

I have encounted an issue in my plant. We have installed altivar 61 schneider electic VSDs for our pump applications. We have got 90kW and 110kW vertical pumps and 75kW sumersible flygt pumps installed in the system. During pump performance test, we have to run the ralated motors at 50Hz (rated frequency) and 400V (rated voltage). However, we have encounted that at 50Hz VSDs were not able to be delivered required voltage to the motors. Technically the voltage at 50Hz should have been 400V since we had set the drives for V/F mode. But, the voltage has dropped to 370V at 50Hz. As such motor was drawing higher current than required at the particular loading condition. Please note, these drives have come with DC chokes and AC chokes installed. When we have contacted the drive supplier, they said that the issue was due to DC choke, and due to DC choke there would be a voltage drop, hence the motor would be getting a reduced voltage. Therefore I have removed the DC choke and tested the drive, and found out that the issue was still there regardless of the DC choke. Please note, in drive HMI, before starting up the motor, main voltage shown is 400V, however moment the motor started, voltage shown droped to 374V something. But when I measured the incoming voltage using a true RMS meter,it showed that voltage is around 400V. I believe HMI getting the voltage form DC bus voltage. I have measured the DC bus vltage as well. I found that DC bus voltage is reducing with the load. Also, until certain frequency, V/F constant, (means that until 370V output), however after that particular frequency V/F decreases, sinceoutput voltage remains 370 V. Kindly requst you all to give me some tips in regard to this issue to be sorted out. I need to find out if this issue because of the motors or due to VSD. Please note all the pumps have the same issue.

Thank you.

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#1

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/30/2010 7:52 PM

Could be a number of things. Off the top of my head:

  1. You have somehow ended up programming a torque limit into the drive, and it is reducing the voltage to keep the torque below that limit.
  2. The drive was not properly commissioned and somewhere in there is programming that was left at some factory default of 370V max. output at 50Hz. For example if the V/Hz pattern were left set for a 440V 60Hz motor, and you limit the top speed to 50Hz, the output voltage would be 366V (I know, not 370, but it might fit with measurement error).
  3. You have a bad capacitor or a loose capacitor connection. But is it happening n all 3 drives? If so, that would not be it.
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/31/2010 3:24 AM

Dear JRaef,

Firstly, I hoenestly thank you for your prompt reply. Ok I will check the drives again that any torque limit have been set. All drives are set for 400V and 50Hz,anyway I would conform it back that any setting have been left. But it cant be a capacitor issue since all the drives are the same as you said. Actually there are several modes in the drive namely,

1. V/F 2 points

2. V/F 5 point

3. V/F quad

4. Evergy save

5. syncrounous

presently the drives have been selected to V/F quad since it has been recommended for pump application where got variable torque. However I have tried, 1, 3 and 4 above, but the result still the same. Please let me know if there could be any impact from the motor class for this issue.

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#3

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/31/2010 6:14 AM

To clearly identify the problem, please check the followings -

1. Remove the motor cable connections at the drive end. Run the drive in this condition. Do you face the same problem? If yes, the problem lies with the basic parameterisation of the drive.

2. If no, then this is happening after connecting the motor. Then this can be due to the voltage drop on the cable. Is the motor cable length too long?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/31/2010 9:26 AM

I have not tried that option, but it is unlikely to happen such a voltage drop due to cable, beside the cable length maximum 25m and cable is 95sqmm as well. Anyway I can try that also. But please note, moment the motor started, the incoming voltage shown in the drive HMI decreases 400V to 374V something regardless of the set frequency. However when the incoming voltage measured, it is acceptable around 399V - 400V. I have checked the set parameters thouroughly but nothing wrong with the set parameters, and it was confirmed by the supplier as well. Are these drives capable of delivering 400V at 50Hz (Theoretically it should be able to deliver same voltage as supply voltage right? )

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#5

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

10/31/2010 9:38 AM

Try the below we recently commissioned the same kind of VFD: Make factory setting first. 2. Simple start page side set Motor parameters as per Motor name plate. Make Autotuning - Yes Low speed - 0Hz, High speed - 60Hz. 3. Input/Output configuration page side set LI1 - forward AI2-(current, min.,- 4ma & max., - 20ma) AO1 - (motor frequency, min., - 4ma & max., - 20ma) 4. Command page side set, Ref channel1- AI2 Ref switching 2 - channel1active 5. Application Function page set, Preset speed page - 2 preset speed - LI5 2preset speed - (0 to 60Hz) whatever frequency you need set it. when, L/R switch position is Local you will give start command from field side only at the time VFD will run preset speed. stop condition VFD will stop normally. when, L/R switch position is Remote you will give start command from DCS only. at the time VFD will run DCS analog signal(4 - 20ma) ref., speed. stop condition VFD will stop normally. when VFD will give trip command or Emergency push button press, at the time only KM1 contactor will deaneries.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

11/01/2010 5:06 AM

All the parameters are set as you have mentioned here. But this preset speed setting I am not so sure and have to check. Kindly tell me, haven't you experienced similar issue there. I meant have you checked the VSD output voltage at 50Hz (or 60Hz ) ?

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

11/07/2010 2:34 AM

We didn't face any problem there, it was a 60Hz system used.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2009
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#7

Re: Pump Performance - Voltage Drop

11/05/2010 2:40 PM

What is relation between load and voltage - at the lowest load the same 370V? (Maybe the drives are undersized)

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dunstansa (3); Energy Conservation (2); JRaef (1); MYSAM (1); Yuri B. (1)

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