Previous in Forum: Workshop   Next in Forum: Capillary Transmitter
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2

Control System - Shutdown Valve

11/13/2010 8:40 PM

why a shutdown valve shouldn't be control by PCS or Fieldbus system?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15601
Good Answers: 981
#1

Re: control system

11/14/2010 12:19 AM

Because you don't want remote operation to control the valve. This is why they still make manual valves. Does it make sense to remotely control a faucet to wash your hands or a toilet valve so you can flush?

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2
#2
In reply to #1

Re: control system

11/14/2010 2:03 AM

Thanks for response,

please tell me why a shutdown valve should be control by ESD system,not PCS or Fieldbus system.

what is different between ESD and PCS?

Thanks again.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#8
In reply to #2

Re: control system

11/16/2010 6:07 AM

Think about it:

  • what job does each one do?
  • what happens on power failure?
  • what happens on instrument air failure?
  • what happens during a fire?

Has this installation been through a formal HazOp Study yet?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 277
#3

Re: control system

11/14/2010 6:16 AM

What is the full-forms of the abbreivations ESD and PCS?

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 41
#4

Re: control system

11/14/2010 6:30 AM

The name shutdown valve you are mentioning here is Emergency shutdown valve. It depends on you Cause & Effect matrix. This valve normally controlled by ESD(Emergency Shutdown System), normally a seperate PLC in which seperate program will be devloped with reference to the cause & effect martix, which is quite different from PCS and normally this valve will not be controlled by PCS.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15601
Good Answers: 981
#6
In reply to #4

Re: control system

11/14/2010 7:47 AM

If you are correct that ESD is Emergency Shut Down and not Electro Static Discharge, Equipment Status Display, Elliot Simon Data center, or several hundred other acronyms then the answer is obvious. An Emergency Shut Down system must be an extremely reliable separate system than the operations control system. Often the root cause of a machine requiring an Emergency Shut Down is the control system has failed in some unknown fashion. So another working system then must be used to stop the machine.

If ESD does not stand for Emergency Shut Down then the OP is SOL. Maybe even FUBAR. One can hope for just a SNAFU. But I ask you, DILLIGAF? Not by one RCH. GAL

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 250
Good Answers: 2
#5

Re: control system

11/14/2010 6:44 AM

For Information FieldBus does not generate Digital Outputs neither it takes Digital Input its purely meant for Control Loops,

When You look at IEC 61508 You will observe that Equipment under control -EUC shall be controlled by seperate dedicated Reliable , controller.It shall be implemented only for SIF And shall not mix with BPCS(Basic process control system )

Regards

Jose

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 2
#7

Re: Control System - Shutdown Valve

11/15/2010 6:26 PM

I see OP used alot here. What does that mean?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Control System - Shutdown Valve

11/16/2010 6:09 AM

The two most common uses of it are "output" and "original poster". Most bets are on the latter though it could be quite confusing....

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#10

Re: Control System - Shutdown Valve

11/16/2010 6:15 AM

Many gas and oil boilers' shutdown valves are controlled by string theory ():

  • A piece of sisal string is arranged so as to hold the main gas supply valve, which is weighted to close under the effects of gravity, in the open position. In the event of a burner malfunction and a local fire outside the burner assembly, the string burns through, releasing the closing mechanism on the gas supply valve, and the supply is turned off, shutting down the boiler. Fieldbus? Pah!
__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

dkriley (1); Hamid_001 (1); Jay_ (1); josej (1); PWSlack (3); ravindran_52k3 (1); redfred (2)

Previous in Forum: Workshop   Next in Forum: Capillary Transmitter

Advertisement