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Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/21/2007 5:41 PM

I have started construction of a concrete accessory to my pool. The pool is surrounded by a paver deck but I had a concrete slab pad poured for future construction of a water fall. Now is the time. I have worked with concrete on a few projects (slabs, steps, etc.) but have never erected a vertical structure.

The pad is eye-shaped and approx. 17' x 9' x 4" (5.25m x 2.75m x 10cm) thick and was reinforced with 3/8 (9mm) rebar. It sits on top of about 6" (15cm) of compacted limestone and has not moved or subsided in the two years since it was poured. In any event, though the pool edge part of my design will involve some construction on top of the natural rock pool coping, I intend to divide the part on top of the coping from the part on the pad and seal the thin gap. This is to prevent any pad subsidence from pulling/cracking the coping portion.

I am using an old, sturdy fiberglass, octagonal-shaped hot tub as the base. The steps that used to go down into the tub will now be the steps that go up to the top. The top will be a seating area inside a shallow grotto large enough for two adults. from th epool edge and around the left side of the steps/grotto, I intend to fabricate setps that curve up and around the back of the grotto top and lead to a slide that will curve around and eject into the pool on the right. Between the lower half of the slide and the grotto, in the back corner, I want to add a seat for two with a shallow basin in front. The basin will hold about 4" (10cm) of water and be just large enough for a couple of adults to lay down in. The back wall will also be eye-shaped with its highest point behind the landing for the slide. At that point, the wall will be about 8' (2.5m) high.

I will route the water and install valves so that I can control the flow of water a. down the slide, b. forming the water curtain in front of the grotto, c. down in to the basin, and d. down the steps. These valves will be accessible from the back an inside a smallish storage area beneath the slide, slide landing and steps and under the hot tub base. I designed the storage area for storage of pool chemicals and maintenance products and to reduce the total weight of the structure.

I mocked up the design with pvc piping and have determined how I'll tie it all together with rebar and concrete to support the loads (the rear wall, the steps, the slide, and the grotto). I plan to pour another 2" (5cm) of high-strength concrete on top of the existing pad and stack another 4" h x 6" w (10cm x 15cm) around the perimeter for a beam and the bottom course of concrete for the wall. I have already strung a double course of 3/8" (9mm) rebar in the beam and a single course grid at about 16" spacing across the pad. The first pour will encapsulated this rebar and secure the submerged lip of the hot tub. The additional pour to finish the beam will involve another double course of rebar tied to vertical rebar posts on 16" (38cm) spacing. Thus, the finished beam will be 6" x 6" (13cm x 13 cm), have 4 courses of rebar, and sit on top of the 4" (10cm) pad. I didn't see the pad poured and want to make sure that the completed project is structurally sound. I figure, if the pad subsides, as long as the structure on top remains sound, I can have it raised via the foam injection method. To prepare for that possibility, I am using short sections of 1/2" pvc pipe tied vertically to the rebar in 6 places, so that only the pad will have to be drilled through to install the foam injection ports.

I will form the walls and load bearing portions using 4" x 16" x 8" (10cm x 39cm x 20cm) semi-hollow concrete block, 6" (15cm) grid wire fencing mesh, and concrete liberally reinforced with rebar. As the structure rises, I have some ideas for reducing weight by sandwiching solid foam inside the concrete and between load bearing areas. The hot tub base will be covered with a rebar-reinforced layer of concrete 1" to 2" (2.5cm to 5cm) thick. I have some 3" I.D. cardboard tubes that I will use to pour rebar-reinforced support columns for the middle and lower height portions of the steps and slide.

The grotto will be formed using rebar-reinforced concrete and wire mesh walls, domed on the interior with a shallow basin on top. The water that forms the grotto waterfall curtain will pool in the basin and flow out of a slit across the front. The front lip will be wide enough to serve as a platform for jumping/diving into the deep end of the pool.

I plan to finish off all of the portions intended to hold water with water resistant concrete. The water that flows down the several routes should flow in the basin and over a lip (the part of the structure on top of the coping) and back into the pool. The water will come from the main return line, shared with 2 or 3 (the 3rd is the Polaris and can be open or closed) and pushed by the 2 h.p. main pump, but may be supplemented by the 3/4 h.p. Polaris pump. Because the structure needs to return all of the water back to the pool, except for the gap I'll seal along the joint with the pool coping, I plan to construct as a single piece without relief joints.

Ideally, I'll end up with a structure that will not seriously crack, that won't leak water outside of the pool, that is strong enough to allow adults to climb up on top of the grotto and jump into the pool, and safe enough to allow adults and children to climb the steps and slide down without too much risk.

I am in Houston, Texas, USA, where summer temps may go a bit above 100 degrees F and winter temps are usually no lower than the upper 20s, and only rarely occasionally dip below the 20s.

I plan to buy a 3 cubic foot powered cement mixer and mix my own portland cement, sand, and gravel aggregate. I'll hand-form the surfaces and plan to go for a smooth natural boulder effect. I will probably paint some of the surfaces and stain others. I may use some decorative tile on the steps, the seat, the basin, and maybe the slide. Regarding the slide, I'm not yet sure how I'll make it slippery and non abrasive.

Just writing this has helped me put my ideas in a more concrete (pun intended). Any advice on any aspect of the structural construction would be greatly appreciated.

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#1

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 6:56 AM

Take precautions during the construction to prevent wet concrete from entering the pool water. It will wreak havoc on your pumps. (Even small, seemingly harmless amounts.) It sounds like a neat little oasis. Good Luck!

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#2

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 7:18 AM

Sounds like you've thought this through for some time. I was beginning to expect to see some drawings and calculations.

A few comments, if I may:

For something that is essentially a decorative semi-habitable structure, it sounds like an overdesign to be talking about rebar, but then, I haven't seen the design or loadings, so I'll leave that to you. I'd suggest checking into the fiber reinforcing in common use today. You're not loading the structure with more than a few hundred pound point loads (people), and it seems (at first glance) that steel reinforcing is overdesign.

If you do use steel, remind yourself that it needs a minimum of 3 inches of concrete cover. Rusting steel is one of the primary causes of structural failure (cracks).

You haven't talked about concrete mixes either. You have an excellent opportunity to make a beautiful concrete sculpture and the aggregate you use can become part of the beauty. At least consider some quartz and perhaps even move into some semi-precious stones such as turquoise.

Finally, for the slide: it seems every school I've designed, and visited after occupancy, I find areas of the plaza where the concrete has been "waxed" by the skateboarders. It's a thought. You'd probably want to do a final epoxy "glaze" on the slide surface that can be polished smooth. Make it thick enough to cover the aggregate of the concrete and thick enough to avoid cracking or crazing.

There you have it. We expect photos of the finished sculpture and videos of it in use.

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#15
In reply to #2

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

06/05/2008 3:29 PM

This sounds like quite a project - a lot more complicated then mine - but I was hoping for some help or advice. We bought this house with a custom pool that included a slide and waterfall. The slide started cracking and you were not able to use it anymore... So I wanted to re-surface it... I had one person come in and give me a bid of 4000. to jack hammer it - rebar it - re-surface it.... I knew that was over-board. I had a couple other pool places that didn't want to touch it - because it was not a big enough project... So I think I have most of the top layer off - down to the pours cement - now I don't know what material to use to put back on the slide to make it smooth, water resilient and slick. Can you give me some ideas… Also I would like any experience on any application issues I might run into. Thanks.

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#19
In reply to #15

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

04/27/2011 8:38 PM

Hi Toni, With great interest I read your answer and the advise you were soliciting to resurface your concrete slide. I have exactly the same problem and do not know what materials to use. Did you find out more since you wrote your reply? Please let me know. Much appreciated. Cheers, Aart

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#3

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 10:05 AM

Clearly you have put a lot of thought into your project. That will help with the Harris County (or City of Houston) Building Department. You can be sure they will have some input.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 12:12 PM

On most states, building permits would not be requied for this project. I owned and ran a pool business for a few years a few years ago. We obtained building permits because we needed to have the electrical system inspected, there were no other requirements for the city, county or state. The city wanted to know if the system was properly grounded.

Come to find out, it's not a law that you need to fence in your pool .... but try to get homeowner insurance without it.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 1:17 PM

Labyguy, I'll have to defer to you on permitting requirements for pools. As a GC here in Florida (environmental systems) the only thing I can say about building department requirements is that every one is different. The one thing they appear to have in common is the desire to separate you from as much money as possible. Lets hope our friend Texlex can avoid the permit related aggravation.

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#4

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 11:07 AM

You may want to look into specialty Admixtures for water resistance, Epoxy resins, and Air entertainment for freeze/thaw resistance and to reduce spalling.

Also, you might want to think about a real footing around the edge of your pad, I don't believe a 4" pad is quite thick enough to not break off the edge with a substantial load. But maybe thats just my neurosis!

Good Luck.

Bap.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/23/2007 3:30 PM

Thanks for all of the input. I have put a lot of thought into the project and some reserach, as well. As for permits, I do need to check that (it's probably best not to trust my luck on any more stealth constructions :), but the project will not involve any significant electrical (I thought above embedding some optical light fibers but that would be low voltage) or sanitary plumbing, so I don't think it will require a permit.

I have already installed and tied in a good bit of rebar, as I'm from the over-engineering school of non engineers. The 3" overlay comment is a concern. I'd suck if my proclivity for overengineering caused a failure the overengineering was intended to thwart. Would a liberal application of nitric acid gel (naval jelly?) that turns the rust black be a good thing to do right before I pour the cement? As far as loading, I had two concerns. First, the weight of the structure itself and, second, the weight of persons climbing, sliding around on it, and jumping off of it-maybe eeven all at the same time. The slide has about 60 degrees of curve, so there'll be some lateral forces, as well.

As far as the concrete, I've read up on fiber reinforcing and found fibers by the pound on Ebay for about $5 per pound. Also, I have a 5 lb. spool of Kevlar yarn that I have no other use for. I was considering chopping it up into 1" pieces and using it. I'd think that that would help limit any crack spreading.

Thanks for the advice re adding attractive aggregates. I was planning on going for a stack-o-boulder look but, at this point, I'm open to options.

Water resistant concretes are available as ready mixes and I am planning to use an additive if I mix my own. A couple of years ago, after the jackhammer demolition on the former pea gravel deck broke the concrete attaching the skimmer, I mixed in a gallon or so of old latex paint that I had on hand into the ready mix. It took longer to set but, when it did, it sure seemed permanent and water resistant.

I have looked into the foam/concrete mixes before and think that this would be a perfect place to use it, especially since I went with the load bearing rebar (whether or not it was strictly necessary). I would think that the foamcrete would tend to be more forgiving of a little rebar rust and that, combined with some fiber and some polymer, it should prove to be both lighter and tougher than a purely mineral mix. Couldn't I just buy a big bag of polystyrene packing pellets and mix it in myself? I have not found any local suppliers of the foam ready mix.

Thanks again fo rth einput and encouragement. I will post pictures.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/25/2007 5:41 PM

The 3" overlay comment is a concern.

I would mix latex with the concrete mix. Makes it waterproof, resists cracking and will protect your steel against moisture. You get products especially for that purpose "Flexbond" is one of them available in my country, but I don't know if the flexbond brand in the USA the same stuff is...?

FlexBond USA

Pool renovation project using flexbond latex additive

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/26/2007 1:58 PM

See if you can find a styrofoam packing supplier in your area. A couple of garbage bags of pre-expanded beads of different sizes shouldn't be too expensive. Packing peanuts should work fine also, but I would like them in as small of pieces as possible.

Good Luck.

Bap.

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Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/26/2007 4:16 PM

How about bean bag filler? I believe that it is polystyrene and should be available at hobby stores.

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

03/10/2008 12:38 AM

I am interested in coming up a design for a waterfall/ grotto for my pool.

my problem is If I want to make a waterfall / grotto that will flow water back into the pool I will have to start 3' off the deck now.

I had color stamped concrete poured deeper than normal where I had planned the waterfall starting point. the problem is the heavy red clay that my ground consists of caused the concrete to crack. so short of pulling out the concrete and trying to match the color stamped design I am left with pouring off the walk and trying to come up with a plan to get the water back into the pool. I am using the pool return line special plumbed for this when the pool was built.

ideas?

thanks

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#12

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

04/22/2008 3:55 PM

I was wondering if you determined what you were going to use on the slide portion to make it slippery. I have a concrete slide for my pool and need to re-surface it, but I don't know what they used on it initially.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

04/24/2008 12:52 PM

I still have that road to cross on my project. Please share any info you come up with and I'll do the same. I started forming the slide with diamond mesh and concrete, but it sagged more than I expected. In retrospect, I should have stiffened the mesh with mortar before applying the concrete for strength.

By the way. my name for the project is the "Albatrossity" because I've worked on it for dozens and dozens of hours (probably over a hundred with likely a couple dozen to go) and am too far along to blow it off and too prideful and cheap to hire a pro. Still, I'm finally making some strides that are reducing it's interim stages as an eyesore. I'm using mortar mix to plaster over the structural portions and make them appear smooth and flowing instead of blocky and irregular. Each morning before work lately, I've been going out back and applying an 80 lb. bag of mortar. It's a small mountain.

I have the grotto mostly formed, but still need to construct the top. I have the steps that curve around the grotto and lead to the slide mostly complete, but I still need to form the top step and the landing at the beginning of the slide. Then, I need to form the slide and make it slippery. I also need to add a top layer of concrete to the outer wall and outer edge of the slide and finish the edge of the construction where it meets the pool. Also, I have to sort out the water flow for the front of the grotto, down the slide, and over the side where it will flow through the shallow sitting pool. It's just a matter of finding the hours to put in and doing it before my kids get too old (they're 11 and 5, so I have some time).

Knowing what I know now, I likely wouldn't have attenmpted this large a project. If I had, however, I would have gone at it differently. Instead of block wall construction, I think that I would have been better off forming the walls with the diamond mesh and mortar before filling with a lightweight concrete of some sort.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

05/20/2008 3:58 PM

Did anyone ever find a good solution for making the concrete slide slippery? We had one put in on our new pool, and while it looks great, it barely slides. All the pool company did was sand it and put some kind of wax on it. I'm thinking there's got to be some kind of expoxy or other paint-type finish that would work -- seems to me that I've been to some waterparks whose older slides/lazy rivers were "painted" concrete . . .

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

A.M.

shoptx@austin.rr.com

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#16

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

07/02/2010 10:21 AM

Bump!

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Anonymous Poster
#17

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

12/11/2010 4:05 PM

I need to resurface my concrete pool slide...did anybody come up with what to use? Thanks in advance...

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Anonymous Poster
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Pool waterfall, slide, grotto construction of concrete

12/19/2010 11:58 PM

I built a waterfall and slide on a clients pool and I used paint that is normally used to paint concrete driveways. It's weird how a paint that is used for driveways and garage floors can be so slick when it is wet, but it is extremely slippery when wet and works great! I can't remember the brand of the paint but I got it at Caribbean Paint in Miami. Look them up and ask.

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