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Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 8:12 AM

Gentlemen/Ladies, I'm contemplating getting set up to cast my own bullets as part of a personal reloading program. However the range I go to most often is indoor and requires the use of plated/jacketed bullets to minimize lead in the air. Is there an easy way to put a thin (.0005" max) copper flash on them?

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#1

Re: Copper plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 8:35 AM

I found some stuff by Googling your thread title. To do this in any quantity, you'll need a drum plating set-up. I didn't see any on the DIY sites.

Not to rain on your parade, but a .0005 flash isn't going to give you anything but a copper appearance. I don't see it helping reduce lead in the air very much.

If you have access to a water tank, I'd do some weighing and visuals of flashed and un-flashed bullets after firing. I think you'll still see plenty of erosion of the tail of the bullet that is exposed to the hot gasses, depending how hard you push the load.

And maybe even a complete loss of copper in the area where the bullet contacts the lands and grooves of your barrel.

Used to do a little reloading myself. Have a Dillon RL 550 around here somewhere.

Hope I'm wrong about the Cu flash. Let me know.

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#2
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Re: Copper plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 9:16 AM

I was afraid that might be the answer, but hope springs eternal.... I guess I'll have to use the hard cast stuff at the outdoor range and buy the good stuff for the indoor one...

I figured I'd still need to swage some copper gas checks onto the butt of the bullet during sizing to prevent hot gasses from eroding the bullet but you do that for cast bullets anyway.

You interested in selling that Dillon?

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#3
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Re: Copper plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 9:23 AM

Gas checks aren't enough to satisfy the indoor range policy? I'd think most of the problem would be from gas erosion. I'd think then also, that your copper flash would get you in the door just fine. Give it a try.

But, I haven't been in an indoor range in 20 years.

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#4
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Re: Copper plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 9:39 AM

You interested in selling that Dillon? Sorry, no.

Some day, if I live long enough, I plan to set it up in the red barn that is occasionaly my avatar. I don't have room (or time) in Arizona any more.

Be Safe.

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#5

Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 10:06 AM

Will the range allow or consider Bismith bullets?

Pretty expensive. Search shows a price index of about 12-1 against lead. Slug recovery for recasting will help a little bit.

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#6
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 10:41 AM

Yes bismuth is allowed, slug recovery impossible (the range uses a big pile of ground up tires as the backstop. periodically they come out and shovel it all out and replace it with new, and they separate out the slugs from the rubber crumbs and recycle the lead and copper.) But there is the issue of density. a slug of a given volume will weigh less than a slug of lead. the result is that powder charges must be reduced and recalculated. The reloading manuals generally give data for lead or copper jacketed bullets. Working up new loads experimentally is not for the faint of heart. they sell lead free copper jacketed bullets for some calibers but the point of the exercise is to make this as cheap as possible. The caliber I use (.380 ACP) is anywhere between 1.5 to 2 times the price of it's big brother (9mm x 19) even though the materials are less, assuming you can find it at all, hence the reloading bit.

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#7
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 11:19 AM

Rorschach,

(.380 ACP)?

I didn't think the state of Texas would even allow those sissy calibers inside their border.

Your neighbors don't know this do they?

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#8
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 11:33 AM

.380 is staging a bit of a comeback due to it's concealability. Note the new S&W Bodyguard 380, the Kel-Tec P3AT, and the Ruger LCP, and prior to that the Bursa Thunder 380. Heck even the governor caries a Ruger LCP. Here a while back a rabid coyote was advancing on him and his lab puppy during a morning run and he drew his LCP and dropped the coyote. The brewhaha got to the point that Ruger actually issued a limited edition of the LCP to commemorate it.

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#9
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 11:40 AM

I know, it's not the size of the projectile, it's the shot placement.

I have a couple of P-85's in my safe. Nothing smaller any more.

Here in Arizona, it's legal to carry on your hip, so concealment isn't always an issue.

It's also legal to carry concealed without any type of premit. Even I think that's a bit much.

Ruger LCP "Coyote Special"

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#10
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 12:09 PM

If your P-85's are Mk I's you should send 'em to Prescott and have the firing pins replaced, they are under recall. the pin can break ahead if the safety block and engaging the safety can generate enough force to cause an UID/AD. The recall is no charge. the MK II's fixed that problem.

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#11
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 12:18 PM

Thanks.

The first one was one of the first available to the general public and it has been reworked by Ruger. The other is newer MkII.

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#14
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 10:43 PM

actually its projectile velocity. 1/2 mv^2 milo

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#15
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 11:17 PM

Only if it hits the target.

I shot my truck once. It didn't die. The projectile was going 3,120 FPS when it left the barrel. The truck was standing still. Always point your weapon in a safe direction!

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#18
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 10:20 AM

No substitute for safety! My dad almost shot his arm off...His Ruger M77 30-06 had a firing pin issue. It fired accidently when he was putting it in the rack in his pickup. The bullet went through his sleeve barely missing his arm. He doesn't use a window rack in his truck anymore...and alway being a safety fanatic, he is even more fanatical!

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#22
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 4:02 PM

mv^2/2 is the kinetic energy of the projectile in flight before it hits or misses a target.

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#19
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 2:28 PM

I carry an LCP everywhere. It's so small I often forget I even have it. I originally wanted a Glock 30 (.45) for concealed carry but the cost differential and even the size convinced me to buy the .380.

I'm only sorry that the Coyote Special came out after I bought my plain jane LCP.

FWIW

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#20
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 2:48 PM

buddy of mine has one and let me shoot it. I HATE the trigger, it stacks really badly IMHO, and the sucker wants to try to squirm out of my grip with only three fingers on it after three or four shots, but it is about as accurate as I am.

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#21
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 3:09 PM

Yeah, I understand. It does have a long pull and I got the finger extensions for the magazines which gives you a little better control.

But I didn't buy the thing to take it to the range and shoot all the time. It's strictly a personal protection weapon with a very occasional range refresher shoot.

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#12

Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 1:14 PM

I haven't shot much in a few decades, but it sounds like the indoor backstop is something similar to a metal plate at a 45 degree angle down into a sand pit. If so, does the copper jacket really prevent the lead from getting into the air? I suspect it reduces it but does not eliminate it.

It would seem like a sand pile in front of the backstop would slow down (or stop) the bullets with much less lead in the air. Also, some sort of a membrane between the backstop and the targets would dramatically reduce the movement of air from the backstop to the shooters. There would, after a while, be rather large holes in the membrane at each target location (and a few stray holes in other places) but this should reduce airflow dramatically.

It is interesting to consider what the copper jacket policy does to the range's bottom line. The ammunition costs more and some of it is purchased in the range's shop. Also, the copper in the spent bullets probably makes the recycle much more valuable to them. Thus, by placing the air quality responsibility on the shooter the range is off the hook for the cancer risk and has greater profits due to the copper.

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#13
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/06/2010 1:39 PM

Took my buddy to the range not thinking about the jacketed ammo bit a while back. He shoots .45 LC. not a single round he had NOR the range had would meet their "no lead bullet" criteria.... apparently nobody makes jacketed .45LC ammo commercially that we can find.

The metal plate deflecting down into a sand pit backstop is "old school" and limits the power of the weapons that can be shot and generates more lead particulates from the ricochet off the steel plate. Magnums are almost universally banned and NO rifles are allowed. This range uses a big pile of tire crumbs covered with a kevlar sheet to keep them in place. It works real well and can take anything up to a 7.62 x 31R. Plus they have probably the best HVAC system I've ever seen for an indoor range. it is FBI certified. They are working on a second range next door that will be able to take anything up to a .50 BMG. The limitations are no tracers and no AP rounds.... it wouldn't due to start a tire fire....

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#16

Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 9:42 AM

Another approach to your problem might be to shoot at an outdoor range or locate an indoor range with no bullet material restrictions. Our indoor ranges in the Northeast have air handling and filtering equipment to permit shooting any type of bullet (except magnums).

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#17
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Re: Copper Plating Lead Bullets

12/07/2010 9:48 AM

Outdoor ranges in the spring and fall are fine. But in the summer and the winter, eh not so much. The indoor range I use has the best HVAC system I have ever seen for an indoor range, but I'm sure their insurance company requires the lead restriction. Frankly I'm surprised anyone would insure a range anyway since insurance companies are so risk adverse.

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