Salvaging an 80 Year Old Barn from Destruction

did the property get bought by the developer ? Contact the historical society and planning board, maybe they can help you out. At the very least show up at a township meeting and ask ???????

Yes, darren2264, Their was a mailing notice regarding the historical (heritage)significance about the farmhouse itself, as it was built in 1847, and the family burial plots are presently in the "homesteading' farming communal cemetery (opposite the Munn's United Church) across the road.

It really is amazing just what history can be learned about respectively observing the names of respective families that were considered 'Homesteaders' and founders of their original farming roots!

The names on the headstones speak volumes as to what life must have been like, in those past days, but like all of us, can we really relate at all? There are names of children, on those headstones, that tell that they were only a very few years of age, when they passed away. - Was it Cholera, Diphtheria, or any one of the many diseases prevalent at that particular time in our history? Thank goodness for our 'modern' medicine practices as well as practiced hygiene.

Now, to get back to your comment - NO - the historical society as well as the 'Heritage Building' foundation did not seem to consider the property to be worthy of a heritage designation as of date.

Perhaps the fact that the property is on a very busy thoroughfare roadway, and must be conservatively estimated worth of at least $10 Mil. (and that's only for the 1 and a half acres that the farmhouse and the outbuildings are on) - there is another 98 acres in soybeans, or this year it was cow corn, belonging to the same parcel of land.

So, yes, darren2264, the idea of an historical angle to it, has been considered, and summarily dismissed - there is just too much F@*&^%%ng money involved. I hope to hear back from you, soon, and have a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year for you and your's! - Louis.

Hi Loupy,

It's always a shame to see historical sites disappear. That old wood is worth money!

Just out of curiosity, what are the laws regarding the old grave sites. In most, if not all states here in the US, it is illegal to disturb graves, regardless of the age.

Hi, Kramarat, the small "pioneer" cemetery is kitty corner across the road from the old farm, and is presently being restored and upgraded to be included intact, as part of a greenbelt park setting within the future development.

I just noted the historical significance of my own observations of the heritage instilled in the small homesteading area dating from the 1850's to the recent past. I don't remember any dates on the headstones being any later than around the 1920's or so. - Loupy.

I know the place that you are talking about, I live next door to the west and I despise the fact, that much of history and work of those who came before us is about to be bulldozed under.

What did it take, to have the oldest Oak tree in Oakville saved?

Unfortunately Oakville has allowed full scale development north of Dundas. Nothing is safe.

I have walked several old cemeteries and also became amazed at the connections as well as the mortality of children of the day (that still hits a sore spot as I am a parent).

As for the barn; there are thousands of them out there. The best I can recommend is that, if you can disassemble it and sell the parts of to those who will reuse them.

It will not save it intact, but the individual pieces will continue to exist. Their history will survive.

When I look of an old barn all I see is; what it took to fell the tree, saw it in to beams and board and planks. Than hand craft it to fit. Each piece is unique.

Compared to them are life is a fantasy.

Hi, Icarus, yes it took months for Oakville town council to decide about that old oak to decide to widen the road around it!

And yes the barn board pieces are all hand hewn as well - which is why I would love to reconstruct it as a "carriage house" style of workshop up here in Flamborough. (The building codes for outbuildings are a 'little' bit more relaxed up here in 'redneck' country)

At the rate of development in Waterdown, you will soon be up to your neck in big box stores and "Starbucks"

This↑ is a picture of some of the timbers in my barn. Someone milked cows in here I think.

You should preserve it if you can.

There are two things which come to mind.

1. Carefully de-construct the building and sell the lumber for reuse. Old lumber is in HIGH demand.

2. Carefully de-construct the building and use the lumber to build a "new" barn, or a house.

Thank you lynlynch! I was hoping to dismantle the barn this fall time, but the darn cold snap that hit the northeast lately has definitely put a "plan B" on my plate.

I even invested $120 in insulated coveralls, but my fingers still get frozen raw in this this damp tundra. OK - Go ahead, call me a big WIMP!

I'm hoping for a January thaw. Happy - All the best - Louis.

Depends on what you mean by destruction. I have several piece of furniture and accessories made from salvaged barn timber. I'll send photos tomorrow. Milo

Thank you, Milo. My original post was entitled "Reclaimed Timber/siding to build workshop?".

Somehow it got re-titled to " Salvaging an 80 Year Old Barn from Destruction" - who knows who did the re-titling - it does not matter!

But, yes; Milo, the whole reason that I bought my place in Flamborough, with 1 acre of land and a double garage in a somewhat state of disrepair, was to dismantle the existing drive shed at my old place with the timbers and framing and roofing from the old place; and rebuild it here at my new home as a 'carriage-house' style of workshop.

Believe me, the house is nothing to write to home about - it's small, draughty, needs work, but it is still HOME to me, and that is all that counts, right?

The existing garage (in really poor condition) was to have been torn down, and made into at least a carport, and the re-clycled barn board timbers, framing and roof were to be rebuilt on a new dug and poured foundation to the rear of the existing garage.

Alas, Milo. Plans do have a nasty way of changing from time to time. I've lost my driver's licence (no way to transport building materials from there to here), lost my job (very little money - except for my savings), But no hard luck stories - Just go on to Plan 'B', or Plan 'B', rev19. Happy Holidays Milo- Keep on being Milo - Louis.

Check the phone book for recyclers of construction materials. The barn boards are priceless. I bet you have little in the way of trouble finding someone who will come out and dismantle the barn for free.

Let us know what happens.

Hello, North of 60, how's the weather up there? Sunny and warm? Perhaps a little less humidity - and damn those pesky mosquitoes (use your sunscreen - at least 195) .

North, please see my previous replies to lynlynch and Milo; somehowsways, my original post got misconstrued into the aborted constraints of what is being posted by my original quest. (Perhaps for editing reasonings, - whatever)

But now, to answer your reply - yes there are probabaly many people willing to take apart a barn for the inherent monetary value of used barnboard in order to find a market for such. But that's not what I have planned - I want to build a workshop with the old barn!

But, however, thanks to someone at CR4's editing brainwealth, my original posting got........ whatever???

Happy Holidays to you, North, and keep those black flies and mosquitoes off yor back! - Any signs of Santa yet - is he trying out his new sled? - All the best - Louis.

Decide what it is that you want.............and go for it!!!!!!!!!!

What with the size of the timbers found in the old barn, it may be best for you to hire or rent a crane + a flatbed trailer to transport it all to your homestead. Then you have to unload the timbers and erect and reconnect them in a SAFE manner + ensure that you have structural integrity.

How are you planning to SAFELY take it all apart all by yourself, piece by piece? Some timbers may a few tons, so please plan accordingly. I hope you have lots of understanding good friends with lots of spare time on their individual hands that are willing to help you out in this endeavor throughout the project life.

The next question that comes to mind is: how are you going to reconstruct what you have salvaged? Do you have any approved plans? Aside, I strongly suggest that you complete a "salvage plan" indicting where each piece came from in the barn as well as marking the individual timber pieces accordingly (with some sort of paint or tagging code) before you remove them! It'll help re-erect the barn pieces in their respective places. Please keep in mind that each structural joint throughout the barn may be unique in of itself and no two joints will be identical......each joint most likely was custom fitted by the homesteaders that built it, and back then they didn't use iron nails as much due to the prohibited costs; they usually used wooden pegs (square and/or round...take your pick) to secure each and every joint.

Is there even a stone foundation found under this barn? If yes, be prepared to fork over some hard cash to construct a new reinforced concrete foundation wall and footings + individual square or rectangular concrete footings to support the old interior timber columns/posts. You need a foundation of some sort to safely support the timbers above. Do not support the timbers on Permafrost found throughout the tundra as it will heave and eventually collapse the barn.

I envision that this little project of yours is going to cost you BIG Canadian $$$$, especially if the township fathers find out what you're up to. Much more than you figured it would cost you. They're, the town planning board, is going to MANDATE that Engineering or Architectural plans of your proposed barn be formally submitted for review and approval that have been stamped/sealed and signed by a PE.

Before you do anything, please talk to a registered Structural Engineer about your project.....I'll cost you little or nothing to briefly consult with a Professional Engineer.....I'd forget about an Architect because this is way way way beyond their technical capabilities.

Good luck with your project! Please get back to us later and let us know how you made out!!!

Signed,

CaptMoosie, PE

Civil & Structural Engineer

It was pointed out to me by a building inspector that not a single stick of the salvaged wood in the barn I dismantled and re-built had an engineer's stamp on it. I just looked at him in shock...he could have aced my whole summer's construction! He then pointed out that he was not stupid, that the salvaged beams were so big that obviously is way overbuilt for the task I was using them for. However, I notice that he examined the beams really closely, looking for termite, ant or dry rot damage.

Something to think about. Lesson here is "don't piss off your building inspector" If I had tried to build anything else and skimp on code, he WOULD have exercised his mandate. So keep that in mind before re-building a barn.

As long as the materials are sound, their dimensions will exceed all basic requirements, buy modern day code. Yet to erect any building today requires that engineer stamp, as well as a permit.

As it was built, that barn has with stood the ravages of time. The original design was sound. There was no stamp on the drawings, as there were no drawings to begin with.

The reassembly would have actually improved it's life span. An improved foundation for one. Not to mention improved fasteners.

Yet you will probably, have to change the distances between floor joist's, and the rafters.

And yes do get in good terms with the inspector. Ask him what he wants to see, and provide the results.

Most of them are good people, and some have "Delusions of Grandeur"

Hi again, Icarus - When I paid for the building inspector to examine my new home up here , in Flamborough, I asked him when he had time to come over to the Oakville farm to have a look at the barns, and to offer me his honest opinion as to what he thought about my plans.

He came over a few weeks later and after looking them over, he agreed with me that, yes they were salvagable as building structure framing materials, and that I should take everything I could out from it, including the tin roof, which although weathered on the outside is almost shiny clean on the interior. - Loupy.

Ah yes, just turn the tin pannels over. Smart guy.

I heard that the 1905 worlds fair was taken down and moved to another

state.It might have been 1908 I m not a History buff.I would look up old

Sears and Roebuck catalog archives home kits from that time period ,and

mark the sheds youd like to move to a better spot the same way Sears did.

I heard that was how the regular homesteads were built so well and

affordably to ordinary familys in the beginning, before statehood in some

cases and also that is why people came to trust and honor Sears and Roebuck.ds

I salvaged just such a barn. My entire story is documented on my web site. It was salvaged in Ottawa, re-cut and built in Ottawa upside down (there are reasons for doing it that way), immediately disassembled, moved to just north of Oakville, set up for the Ren Faire, where is served as a building at the Ren Faire. Then nine years later, when the developers bought the site, I tore it all down, and put it into a container where it still lives in pieces like a box of Lincoln Logs until I get around to re-assembling it. The whole story is here.

Oakville city council will make it difficult for you to keep it in situ. I figured them out when they allowed that oak forest to be cut down on 2nd line, so you might not get much help from them. Unless you have pockets as deep as the developers!

Lots of nice barns in that area though. They seem to suffer mysterious fires pretty much on a yeary basis. If you dont move yours, it may well also have a mysterious "accident" like so many others have done! Just saying....

Have we missed that it's the landlords property?

And no doubt falls under "part and parcel" of the sale?

If the developers 'wrecker' has it targeted the 'worthless timber' for 'recycling' - you want to be dead careful how it 'vanishes in the night'.

Note title change

Good answer. I presume that nobody was advocating stealing a building. That of course you would check with the owners before dismantling it. But sometimes presumptions become assumptions, and you were right to point that out.

Cheeky of you

Thanks, 34.5, however the present landlord/owner and his wife have both told me verbally on at least 3 different occations that I have thier permission to remove the barn.

I wouln't mind and would prefer to obtain from them a simple note, dated and signed by them with the same permission and with the caveat of the barn will be safely removed at my expence. _{Just to cover my A$$!}

I haven't been able to get anything in writing from them as of yet. - Loupy

"Your cheque is in the mail" and "I promise I won't...................."

Wow! Yusef1 - Thank you for what is an interesting story of what I've gleaned over so far this morning. I've saved it and will read it in detail soon. I hope that your wife's ankle healed OK.

That story of what you had to go through merit a posting on CR4 all on it's own!

Fortunately?, my barn is not that large and hopefully should be managable by myself, or a helper, once and if I can all of my ducks in a row.

Thanks for the link, and I will read up fully on it later - Loupy.

GA!

Yusef1,

Great web site and a great read!

GA - Thanks

Thanks for the wishes, Loupy.

May you find them reciprocated to the best effect, for you and yours.

As an old 'reclaimer' from 'wayback' ( little town, Northeast from here????)

I can only encourage you to attack the deconstruction and rebuilding with as much gusto and as many friends as you can muster.

It's an entirely honourable project.

I'll go further- it should be compulsory.(reclamation)

How to get started?

Like you've done already. Turn up, and pull and punch fastenings 'till it's laying in an organised heap. Then judiciously use the product to craft whatever you wish.

Folks 'round here think I'm nuts, but I now have a couple of kilometers of 2x10x16ft

stacked around the house waiting for the weather to clear on the next 'project'.

And that, as has been said already, will change.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!

BEST FOR NEW YEAR!

Thank's for that ray of hope, Stueywright - Now if we only can get some rays of sunshine and warmth again - Keep warm - Loupy.

Folks 'round here think I'm nuts

Not likely!

The old recycled lumber is of better quality,and is actually has the dimensions that it goes by. A 2 X 4 is actually a 2 X 4 or better.

Keep on reclaiming!

Yes, That's right.

My forebears didn't see the need to DAR any timber which was to be put to use out of sight. Like in a clad wall. Or in a roof space. Or under a floor.

And neither do I.

All the old stuff is usually only "off saws", and full dimensioned.

I guess modern lumber is just another product of the, to me, totally wastefull philosophy which would have aesthetic win out over function.

There is, to me, beauty in simple function, and I do wish that was the norm rather than the exception.

It is difficult to get timber "off saws" now, and therefore actually stronger spec for the money.

Flip the roof cladding to do another 50 years service,--- Full marks!!

Cheers,

Stu.

Seems to me that what you are lacking is a plan. There are people who de-construct old buildings and use the materials to build new ones. Not too long ago I was in a beautiful home that was built from chestnut timbers from an old de-constructed barn. It was one of the nicest dwellings I have ever been in. All timbers were re-milled and were absolutely stunning. I suggest you find yourself a piece of land and hire someone skilled in this process. You would wind up with a beautiful home or a piece of valuable improved property.

Most barns up hear were made of the most available and less valuable trees. Pine, fir and Spruce. Re milling the main timbers would be an option, but around here people will pay for the weathered boards and the untouched timbers for their character.

There is gold in that old barn. Along with a lot of history that should be preserved, even if is several pieces at a time.

I have been in several old barns over the years and looked around. One question I asked my self is. How long did it take to square up that 40' timber by hand? That is history in it's self.

"How long did it take to square up that 40' timber by hand?"

And how long did it take for animals passing by to round it off again?

Weeks, or months I would gather to guess, lynlynch. And after it had been dried and kept out of the elements - Loupy.

Many a decade

I'm with Icarus, many a decade!

Yes, welderman, the plans are in head and on my Cad drawings so far - I still have to send them to the local bulding dept. for interim approvals along with the $200 fee! To build a 24' by 40' 'carriage house" style workshop.

And yes, I've seen some reclaimed timbers are beautiful if placed in the proper settings., like cathedral ceilings and such as around floor to roof built in fireplaces.

I don't have enough material to build a total house out of what's there - it's only a 24' by 60' driveshed after all and another separate 12' by 15' implement shed. - Loupy.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth while to hire an Amish or Mennonite crew for barn destroying and then rebuild it on my new digs. They could probably do all in one or two days!

I'll supply all the beers and burgers they want, and try to barter with them for me doing some electrical work for them in exchange! just kidding - Loupy.

Not much more to offer beyond what has been stated above.

A few thoughts I have had regarding mine;

Disassemble, install a concrete slab, re-assemble using much of the original structure. In my case, saving on property tax re-assessment for a "new" structure. In your case maybe saving same if you relocate as it would be an existing building (not sure if this would apply for relocated, existing in your area).

I have called a few "Custom Home Builders" that have shown "Barn Board and Beam" family rooms, kitchens, ect., in their brochures. Problem is, when I have called "them" rather than them calling me, as far as value, the answers have been, I will give you .05 per lineal foot to removed it, to, I will remove it free of charge, to, I would have to charge you to remove it.

As far as the two inquiries I have received in which people have stopped by un-announced and un-invited, the best was "Sir, do you have children living here, one of them could get killed in that thing, I will do you a favor and take it down for you. The other was, "you know your home owners insurance is going to go up because of that derelict building. I can save you money and remove it for free". Both were sent on down the road - abruptly.

If you have space to store the materials one option could be, tag, inventory, photograph, disassemble, and store for later sale or reassembly.

Contact a "Custom Home Vulture Builder" and see what "favor" they will offer for disassembly and removal.

One other idea, advertise for bids to have a local demo contractor come out to disassemble and relocate to your other property for storage until you decide to sell or re-assemble. You should still do the tag, inventory, photograph work rather than the demo contractor (this will save you cost and you will get more accurate records).

If you decide to hire "locals" rather than a demo contractor, you should plan on being on site full time to supervise the demolition.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a viable solution. It would be a shame to loose that piece of history forever.

This is my old beauty built in 1886 according to county property records. I know that there have been major overhauls, repairs and additions over the years, perhaps a tear-down/rebuild or two. She is still very sturdy and I hope to someday take on a full restoration project.

All of the structural beams are 8" X 8" up to 8" X 12" and of blind and through mortise with dowel construction. Floor planks vary in width and are all roughly 1 1/2" thick. Siding is varying widths and average 3/4" to 1" thick.

I am not familiar with various wood species but have been told that my barn is oak, maple, walnut???, pine, and/or hedge row, still not positive.

This barn was maintained fairly well through the years up until about 40 years ago as far as I can tell. The missing hay loft door, a section of the hay loft deck that is sagging and a few missing plank sections are about the only eye sores.

I have kept up with re-attaching boards, roof shakes, doors that have become loose as well as foundation re-enforcements.

Again, good luck to you and please keep us posted.

Post a few pictures if you have the time.