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Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/29/2010 2:27 PM

I purchased a 91 Jeep Wrangler that has a 3-1/2" suspension lift on it. When I bought it, one of the leaf spring shims had come off and was lost. Being that I did not have access to the vehicle to measure the remaining shim/wedge, I took a guess based on the limited options available and went with a 6° wedge to replace them both with.

I now have a strong vibration which sounds/feels like it could be coming from a rear drive line. I have not measured the angles of the drive line at the universal joints but I do notice that the angle from drive line to x-fer case is greater than angle to rear differential. The drive shaft is almost perfectly in line to the differential where there is a noticeable angle as it goes into the transfer case. I am told by the former driver of the Jeep (whom I can trust) that the Jeep did not have this vibration prior to my putting the new shims/wedges on it.

My question is: do I need to decrease the angle of the shim/wedges or increase it? And by how much? The lift is a standard "Black diamond" 3-1/2" lift if anyone is familiar with that. I know that I need to measure the angles. What is the maximum angle difference at the universal joints before I can expect to experience the vibration I have now. In other words, how much is too much? I realize that having them both the same is optimal.

Can anyone help? Thanks!

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#1

Re: Jeep question-3-1/2" lift but has vibration

12/29/2010 2:40 PM

You will find that the accute angles the drive shafts are operating will give you vibration and longevity issues.

I've put here some forum sites which you will find beneficial, not just for your immediate problem but for the future issues.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/index.php

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/index.php

http://www.jeepforum.com/

http://www.jeepforums.org/

http://www.wranglerforum.com/

If you do a search on those forums you will find several threads that deal with you issue.

Hope that helps

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Jeep question-3-1/2" lift but has vibration

12/29/2010 2:45 PM

Thanks a lot! Great info!

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Guru
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#3

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/29/2010 3:02 PM

Sounds like your pig (differential) is out of plane with the drive line. Or put better, the pinion shaft center line is out of alignment with the tranny tail shaft center line.

The links Tobugrynbak will help you resolve this.

Years ago, I had a Ford F150 that I added a 6" lift kit. The kit was a cheepy and the spring blocks were squared. I brought the old angled blocks and new ones to a machine shop and they machined them to the proper angle, taking into account the additional lift and that solved the problem.

Good Luck!

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#4

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 1:08 AM

The output shaft of your transfer case needs to be parallel with the pinion shaft of your axle. Don't worry about the steep angle of the drive line unless it is binding in the u-joints. The most important thing is being parallel. The more it is out of parallel the more vibration you will get.

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#5

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 1:40 AM

Ok, this is off topic. Here's a link to my qualifications to comment on this question. We (our club) have some experience with drivline problems caused by raising our Jeeps a little. My old CJ5 has a 3 inch suspension lift and a 4 inch body lift.

We have fun!

http://www.skyliners4x4.com/

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 8:38 AM

Never doubted you for a minute and thanks a bunch for the very helpful information. One more question if you don't mind.

The Jeep has the standard 2.4L engine in it. I recently got a steal on an 89 Cherokee with relativly low miles on it for it's age. It has a 4.0L in it but it has an automatic trans.

In your opinion, would it be worth the trouble involved to swap the 2.4 for the 4.0 into my Wrangler? Would the 4.0 bolt right up to the AX-5 manual tans? And if so, is that tans and x-fer case strong enough to handle the torque from the 4.0?

Also, I'm sure that with all the Jeep enthusiast out there, someone has done a step-by-step instruction book or video on it. Would you happen to know where I might find that info?

If you'd like to answer directly to my email, it's weldeng449@gmail.com. BTW, I'm a welding engineer (hence the screen name!) so if I can ever answer any welding questions, pls feel free to ask.

Thanks,

David

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#6

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 4:20 AM

I worked for GM many years ago as a Reliability Engineer, and my colleagues in Design Engineering had specified a two piece propshaft on a van with three Hookes universal joints. After two years of arguing that this should never be done, we replaced one hookes joint with a CV joint and solved the vibration problems on every van.

The Jeep will use Hookes joints on the propshaft and a Hookes joint is not Constant Velocity. Thus any propshaft MUST have the same angle at both ends AND the joint Ys must be set parallel - so that the velocity increase in one joint is counteracted by a velocity decrease in the other. The greater the angle of the two joints the more velocity change there is on each rotation. Hence the vibration.

As an aside, a Hookes joint should never be set straight either as that will lead to rapid wear in the needles - always aim for a minimum of half a degree at each end.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 8:29 AM

Interesting information. Thanks!

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#7

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 8:08 AM

In the directions for the lift kit there should have been notes that you need to install a "slip yoke eliminator kit". The output of the NP231 transfer case has a slip yoke. There is a kit to change this over so that you will have a CV joint on both ends of the driveshaft. This should eliminate your vibration. These notes appear all over most websites that sell lift kits for Jeeps. The yoke will pull out of the transfer case when you suspension flexes unless the kit is used. It may not happen the first time or two, but it will eventually.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 8:40 AM

I've seen what you are talking about but never knew if they were worth the expense. It sounds as if they are.

Thanks!

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Guru

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#11

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

12/30/2010 7:22 PM

the prop shaft does not have constant velocity joints but the front wheel drive axle would have at the wheel ends

the prop shaft joints can only take a small drive angle as the hooke coupling when rotated through a large angle goes fast slow fast slow in one revolution unlike the CV joints which can take extreme angels and maintain velocity throughout hence the name contstant velocity

perhaps this is causing your problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

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#12

Re: Jeep Question-3-1/2" Lift But Has Vibration

01/06/2011 10:55 PM

I think that I remember the limit for U joints was 7.5 degrees. The angle should be the same at each end. The CV joint may be required, I will yield to the experts there. But this I do know, if you pulled apart the slip joint in the middle of a driveshaft, you MUST align the U joints. Most split shafts have an alignment deformation to ensure that it is aligned, but if the shaft was lengthened to allow for the lift kit, it might have been eliminated. Check that before digging in it too much. Good luck.

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