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Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 10:30 AM

Last week i visited a industry.They have three 3516 A CAT generators @ 400 V.they have a motor of 110 kW whose staring current was 1100 amps (for 4-6 secs almost).The customer was facing some problems as the load becomes unbalance on the syatem when the motor starts.

Here is the situation i saw my self.Initially when the motor was not running the load on gen 1 & 2 was 600 kw each and 550 kw on third generator.Now as soon as the operator started the motor (the motor drives a large belt) the load on gen 1 & 2 for (4-6 ) secs reached to 650 kw and redcued to 520 kw on gen 3.my question is why generator 3 reduced its load.what can be the factor that is causing gen 3 not to take torque load???

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#1

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 11:47 AM

When a PLC is being used as a central power station control, one has to select one machine as a prime unit and allocate a suitable datum value to it, whenever the system load touches that datum value the PLC automatically gives start command to the next unit(s) and vice versa.

In your case with all three units running, I think that the datum value for the prime unit needs to be increased so that all units should take up the load in due proportion when the large motor starts.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 12:25 PM

the plc is working ok!!there is some other issue.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 1:06 PM

I did not say that the PLC is malfunctioning, only you should change the set parameters in the PLC.

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#3

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 12:52 PM

clean/change the fuel filters on #3

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#5

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 3:16 PM
  1. Why generator 3 not sharing before 110 kW motor applied?
  2. Is its governor droop same as other sets?
  3. If Gen 3 is worn, its fuel pump at maximum stroke at 550 kW, then speed fall will reduce fuel flow in proportion to speed, with effect on possible power. Or could be maximum stroke stop is not same as others.
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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 4:57 AM

gen 3 was sharing load before!!

not confirmed about this

the gen 3 is old (10 years i guess)!!

can u just give an idea what could be the factors besides droop settings???

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 7:29 AM
  1. Sorry to seem pedantic, but before "what" and how long "before. You gave figures of 600 KW, 600 kW and 550 kW before motor start - 50 KW difference is not good sharing when two are equal at 600 kW.
  2. The only way to do a convincing test is to move the governor no-load speed setting of unit 3 until it is at say 10% load. Then reduce governor settings on other units down to drop busbar frequency till 3 takes say 90% load. The frequency change should be compared with 90%-10% = 80% of expected 0 to 100 % droop.
  3. Another post mentions fuel filter blockage on unit 3. Shortage of fuel would account for loss of power by unit 3, no amount of control action will work to compensate.
  4. Droop setting could account for unit 3 not sharing well BUT it CANNOT account for unit 3 giving less power as the frequency drops.
  5. If unit 3 is old, my suggestion that unit 3 was already at maximum pump stroke at 550 kW (due to wear and loss of efficiency), so speed fall with increased system load would drop fuel input and power is valid. This would also explain why it is not sharing load. But it could be just mal-adjustment of maximum fuel stop - note adjusting maximum fuel stop is not normally done because it is maker's protection against overload.
  6. Does unit 3 share better at lower total loads?
  7. Does unit 3 give a lot of exhaust smoke?? A common sign of wear.
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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 11:12 AM

Thanx a lot buddy!! also if u can do me a favor and explain point # 2 in detail!! wat i get from this point is to redice load on gen 1 & 2 and simultaneously increase on gen 3???

also i didnt get the 90%-10%=80% case:S!!

hope u wud be a great help again!

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 12:57 PM

About point 2 :-

  1. Having adjusted set 3 governor speed setting for 10% load, do not adjust it again during droop test.
  2. When you drop the speed settings on sets 1 & 2, set 3 is forced to take up load - by its droop-governor control.
  3. Reason for starting at 10% is that governors can be more non-linear at say 0 -10%. If you find the droop specification, it may have a reduced performance at low loads.
  4. Reason for ending at 90% is that according to your report, set 3 is giving less power. I am not familiar with set type mentioned and you did not state its kW rating. It is possible you cannot get 90% or even 80% of rating - you have to adjust to this by using a load less than the most you can get.
  5. It is good idea to take up load in ~20% steps and take off load in same steps - unlikely you will get same in both directions! It helps to get as much info as possible when you do test. An expert may know how much difference is expected.

If you are able to measure fuel consumption of each set at similar loads, a comparison (having corrected each consumption to same load, in proportion to load) might reveal set 3 is much less efficient than others/maker's data. This would be a clear indication of wear or serious maladjustment (or both).

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 2:05 PM

GA and look out for reverse power in/to G3 while you go down on the KW for the other two, really you will see reverse power on G2 & G1 and iF,,,,,,,,, well look out for it, meters will go the wrong way.

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#6

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/08/2011 7:40 PM

This may come as a stupid question, why is the thread called "Generator Isolated Operation"?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 4:53 AM

dear,

isloated operation means the gensets are operating without grid!!they are not connected to the utility if connected the problem wont occur!:)

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 9:53 AM

GA, called Island Mode too

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

08/12/2011 1:24 AM

I think there is difference between isolated and islanding operation. Isolated operation is that a hydropower plant auxiliary systems are energized and it is ready to take load condition, but not taking any load actually. But islanding means, a utility is taking particular load even when other load is out. Normally, in the even of a system failure, planned islanding is possible by using Diesel Generator.

sks

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#14

Re: Generator Isolated Operation

01/10/2011 5:27 PM

Do you have any fuel lift pumps in system? Engine driven? Problem with this could cause fuel starvation on set 3.

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