Giant Toads and Australia

That sounds like the big Rattlesnake Roundup we have here every year in West Texas. Except we eat them.

This is a technicality:

Suppose I have this link http://www.blather.net/blather/1997/07/raining_toads.html and it's only relevant with an enormous stretch of the imagination, or it's already beaten to death.

1. Should it have it's own thread, or I should save the site's resources, and post it here anyway?

2. Then, How can I rename my HTML link into a more descriptive caption?

Dear Admin? Roger? Anybody?

1. Should it have it's own thread, or I should save the site's resources, and post it here anyway?

I think a scientific explanation of "raining toads" fits within the context of our site, so I think it's ok to post it. That's just my opinion.

2. Then, How can I rename my HTML link into a more descriptive caption?

Up at the top of the text box we write our posts and replies in, there is a menu bar that includes:

In that bar, the one that looks like this:

can be used to create hyperlinks. Just highlight a word or section of your text you wish to act as the hyperlink, click the icon above a box will open that allows you to create a hyperlink.

I hope that helps.

Roger

Got it

The story is quite correct and is one of the milder surrounding cane toads. These toads were imported into Australia to control a problem beetle and are now taking over the country. It's an enviromental disaster which doesn't appear to be well known outside Australia. Locals have come up with many different ways of dispatching cane toads, some of which are not pretty!

I remember watching a documentary on this quite a few years ago, back in the late 80's or early 90's, on the Discovery Channel. It was a huge problem then and an even bigger one now. I remember seeing photos of a heard (or whatever you call a flock of toad, haha) taken at night, that stretched as far as the light they were using to film with would shine... crazy!

We have a similar problem in the US that started, oh... I don't know... maybe 10 years ago or so, with a version of the lady bug that has a rancid taste and smell so no other animal here eats it. Swarms are so thick they look like black clouds.

From a vegetation perspective, we also have a problem with a really veracious creeping vine that is destroying our wood lines. I think that it was imported from Japan but I'm not sure. I've tried a web search by my employer's IT policy is very strict and keep running into my firewall... ouch.

I have found a 3 iron a good method of dispatching the slimy intruders and you can practice your swing at the same time. I don't recommend using anything higher than a 5 iron as you get too much lift and you may end up wearing some of it.

If you find them on the road and manage to run over them just right you can get the to explode with a loud bang just before they revert to a two dimensional creature. It takes considerable practice and I recommend washing the car afterwards.

Hahaha... that cracks me up. I've never heard of a toad that big! So where are they from? That must be really fun running them over... You should mount some heavy knife blades on spring loaded hinges underneath, so you don't have to "pop" them with your wheels hahaha. There aren't very many things that you can run over in the States, without feeling guilty about it... poor mister squirrel... why are you so adorable, yet so squishable?

-Nick

"I've never heard of a toad that big! So where are they from?"

I understand they originally came from Hawaii and were imported into Australia during the 1930 to eat cane beetles. Turned out they eat everything except cane beetles. They are toxic and anything that eats them, all the way up to small crocodiles, dies. They are a huge problem and are spreading at a considerable rate. 15 years ago there were very few in the Northern Territory and now that have spread right through the Kakadu national park and into Darwin.

If anybody knows a sure fire way to get rid of these bloody things I can guarantee you will be a millionaire tomorrow.

Frog legs?

Supposedly they are poisonous?

But are the legs poisonous? That's the question. Parts of the puffer fish are poisonous yet they're still considered a delicacy. (Not by me.) Rattlesnakes are poisonous, yet quite tasty once you cut the heads off. How poisonous are they? What if you just lick them?

You are right, I read that the skinned legs are edible. ehhh... I don't think that I would want to lick them. It said that the legs are edible only if "duly skinned". If it can kill a small crocodile then I'm sure it could make a human quite sick.

...are the legs poisonous...

Indigenous people manage to neutralise almost anything they like eating, including some of the most toxic creatures to be found, usually by cooking, thus, breaking or twisting the molecules.

Puffer Fish in The Caribbeans and Sinai, Sea Snakes in the South-East, Midget Corrara frogs in Latin America, you name it.

Cane toads have poison secreting glands in their skin. They can actually squirt this poison from the glands and it can cause serious damage to the eyes and face. It is also fairly toxic if ingested. I don't know of anybody ever dying from them but I have never come across anybody dopey enough to try and eat one. I don't know it skinning them gets rid of the poison either so it may be possible to treat them some way and make them edible. However, preparing them is a way that makes them appear appetizing could prove to be a serious problem.

If you think these are bad you should see what the rabbits did. There is no real natural predator to the rabbit in Australia and once released, well they bread like rabbits. They would strip the ground bare, undermine it with their warrens and leave it susceptible to erosion

In the 1980 they came up with a virus that only affected rabbits. After testing, on islands isolated from the mainland, and an accidental early release it was finally deliberately released and spread on the mainland. The result was a dramatic decrease in the rabbit population and they are no longer the problem they once were.

The next invaders on the hit list are cats and foxes. Feral cats are a serious problem, nobody knows for sure, but it is suspected they are responsible for extension and near extension of numerous indigenous species.

What we need is something that makes cane toads look appetizing to the feral cats, that way they will eat them and we can kill two pests with one stone.

...you should see what the rabbits did...

Yeah, I know. Australia is very sensitive to imported species, not unlike Madagascar, Both evolved isolated ecosystems for millions of years, with own flora (bacterial) and fauna (multicell), until man came some fifty thou (any creationist watching?...) ago.

The rabbits case appearently proved that the local flora protected it's environent. Beautiful. A cheer for the bugs.

One thing that did manage to evolve in Australia, more so that anywhere else on earth, was venomous snakes. With land dwelling venomous snakes 18 of the 20 most venomous and all of the 10 most venomous snakes are native to Australia. I don't know the statistics on sea snakes but some of them make the taipan look positively tame.

Snakes are usually pretty good at keeping out of the way of humans and it is fairly rare to see one.

Spiders are a different matter and the Sydney funnel-web spider can and has killed people. The venom it produces is a freak of nature as it is only dangerously toxic to humans, if it bites a dog, for example, the affects are minor. This made it very difficult to develop and antivenin and until the 1990s there was none available. If you get bitten by a funnel web and don't get the antivenin, there is a good chance you will die. These are really nasty and aggressive spiders that wander and are prone to coming indoors. They love to hide in shoes and clothing.

If you ever come across a Sydney funnel-web never hit it with anything less than a 5 Kg sledge hammer, it will just make it even meaner and madder than their normal nasty disposition. I clobbered one with a broom one day, where upon it stood up on its back legs and had a go at me. It continued to hit it with the broom, but after about 10 good hits it was still coming. I retreated and returned with a shovel, which I eventually subdued it with, by hitting it, several times. The only thing good about a funnel web is that the bite is painful so you know when you have been bitten.

A decent percentage of seriously poisonous spiders in Australia can bite you without you being aware you have been bitten. I have been bitten like this and the first you know about it, is some time later when you start feeling unwell.

Even with all the nasties Australia is still a darn good place to live.

...If you get bitten by a funnel web...

Are they found in Tasmania or New Zealand?

One of the most toxic as it's so happens, is here in Israel, it's confined to an area of about 100 square kilometers, it's main breeding area in Ein-Geddy (west to the Dead Se), and found only somewhere else, in the Nubian desert.

It's called in Hebrew "Saraf Ein-Geddy" (The Ein-Geddy Seraph), I can't say how it's called in Latin, but it's totally black, about 150 centimetres long, with a flush head, so you wouldn't suspect it's venomous, and it's toxin is a nerve-poison, not a hemmotoxin as most snakes are. Luckily (for us, not so for it) it's rare, and estimated at about ten thousand worldwide.

Not to my knowledge. They are normally confined to the east coast of Australia and are only active in the warmer months. They have been seen in South Australia but I think that is a rare event.

You can't exclude them from main cities and towns, then

I have friends in Amaroo, near Brisbane. Can they (funnelwebs) be found there?

"You can't exclude them from main cities and towns, then"

No unfortunately, Sydney and its environs are one of its main habitats.

"I have friends in Amaroo, near Brisbane. Can they (funnelwebs) be found there?"

Yes you can get them in Brisbane but they are not as common there as in Sydney. You will know if you ever come across one as they are completely fearless. They will threaten you first by standing up on their four back legs and raise their four front legs, thorax and head in the air while waving their front legs about. If you back off they will quickly scurry away as soon as they see and escape route. If threatened however they will attach absolutely anything, rushing at them with the same aggressive posture waving thief front legs in the air. Their fangs are about 5 mm long and are sharp and hard enough to penetrate shoe leather.

It's quiet fascinating really, they sort of stand up with this go on, have a go, I'll take you on attitude.

If you ever visit Australia don't panic, they aren't that common and the majority of people would have never seen one.

The funnel web has a less lethal cousin called a trap door spider, it's a little smaller and less aggressive but has a wider environ. I watched one, in the back garden of my house in Adelaide, having a life or death battle with a huge wasp, that tad a body about 25 mm long. The battle took about 15 minutes, but in the end, the trap door won out. It then ripped the wings of the wasp bound its legs up with silk and proceeded to drag it back to its burrow. We followed all the way across the garden and along the fence line, till it found a hole in the fence that it used to get into our garden. By the time it disappeared through the fence it had dragged the wasp's carcass over 30 m (100 feet). Tenacious little bugger.

It's really not as bad as you would think. Yes, there are more things in Australia that can sting, bite or eat you than just about anywhere on earth, but, if you take a few simple precautions it's no more of a problem than anywhere else.

...if you take a few simple precautions...

This is indeed amazing. Local figs here cannot be ripe unless populated by a local miniature wasp's eggs. Once the eggs are injected into the fig, it closes all escape routs, ferment the eggs with it's own juices to kill the eggs and extract some needed proteins from them, then become ripe.

Since it's really a symbiosis, some if the eggs manage it turn into a miniature larvae and pupate, at the edge of the fig, during this process. Both sides happy, only here the wasp is the pray. A chemical pray to a plant.

Hi Yuval,

I remember watching a program about symbiotic relationships some time back, these relationships can be quiet complex.

The program looked at the plight of a species of flower, that if I remember correctly, is native to the Hawaiian Islands. The plant is no longer reproducing in the wild and they believe the reason is, the insect that cross pollinated the flowers, has been wiped out. They would like to reintroduce the insect and give the plant a chance at survival, but, now the insect is gone, there is no way to figure out which insect was doing the cross pollination.

At the other end of the spectrum, with the introduction of cattle to Australia, flies became a massive problem. The dung from the cattle gave the flies the perfect breeding ground and the population of flies exploded. Australians being an inventive lot developed the following solutions:

· The Great Australian Salute The waving of a hand across you face at regular intervals to brush away any flies that have landed and to deter any further flies from landing.

· The Australian Bush Hat This is a wide brimmed felt hat that has a series of corks dangling on the end of short pieces of string that are strung around the edge of the rim. The continually moving corks stop the flies from landing on your face. The hats are usually made from a special type of felt that is made from rabbit pelts. It requires seven rabbits and the corks from about a dozen bottles of wine to make one of these hats. A typical Australian solution, you kill two birds with one stone and get pissed, drinking the dozen bottles of wine, in the process.

Recently however they introduced the dung beetle, a lovely creature that likes animal dung even more than the flies. Within hours of a pile hitting the ground they have rolled it up into little balls and buried it in the ground. It hasn't completely removed the problem, but, there has been a dramatic reduction in the fly population. You can now eat outdoors, without being fearful of everything, including the table, being carried off by flies.

...a series of corks dangling on the end of short pieces of string...

I have seen that, could never tell what it was for, thought it was just for appearance, you know, decorative. We have flies here in abundance you know, maybe... Are there royalties involved ?

"Are there royalties involved ?"

I very much doubt it, it's pretty hard to patent a cork on the end of a piece of string. Anyway people have been doing it for well over a 100 years so by now it's definitely open slather.

It is however an example of how inventive Australians can be. You would be surprised at what you can build out of a few sheets of corrugated iron and fencing wire.

I just found this link about the wasp that I mentioned in the previous post. Apparently it is called an Australian spider wasp and it is partial to huntsman spiders. This one apparently took on the wrong spider and paid the price.

The Taipan and Western Taipan (or fierce snake) are No.2 and No.1 in the deadly stakes. Both are extremely agressive and the venom contains neurotoxins, anticoagulants and coagulants. Both strike repeatedly and both have large venom capacity and fangs about 13mm long to inject the venom. Untreated bites can kill humans in about 15 minutes or a dog in less than 10, not a pretty sight.

Antivenine does exist, thanks to the efforts of the late and great Ram Chandra among others. All of the pioneers in this field operated at considerable risk due to the speed, toxicity, agility and agression of these animals.

When they bite a toad and try to eat it both animals die. Kinda win win I suppose.

Taipans were first identified as a seperate species in Mackay but were subsequently found to have a large range along the Eastern Coast.

Cane Toads have poisonous glands on their backs. Years ago when you ran over them they just dried up on the road, nothing would eat them. Enter the smartest bird around, the Crow. Crows roll them on their backs and feast. Quolls (a native marsupial carnivore) turn them inside out and eat them. The brown hawks also have learnt the crow trick. Around Mackay in Central Queensland the toad numbers are going down each year as is the size of the things, frogs are now making a comeback too. There are increasing numbers of crows, but I don't know if the two population events are linked.

I've personally seen snakes die before managing to swallow the toad. It is Goannas more than Crocodiles that die from them (Goannas are large monitor lizards which grow up to about 2.5 metres), but they could be a problem for freshwater crocs, salt kills toads.

Apart from salt, dettol or pine o clean do a marvellous job on them, just spray with a squirty bottle.

This reminds me of a Simpsons episode from a few years ago. That's probably why I vaguely remember something about this. I wonder why I never heard about this from somewhere that wasn't from a cartoon? I had to look up the episode summary:

http://www.answers.com/topic/bart-vs-australia

"In the subplot, Bart brings his pet frog past customs into Australia where it reproduces and spreads rapidly throughout the country eventually ruining its ecology (a reference to the actual introduction of non-native Cane Toads into Australia)."

I had no idea that they were causing such a problem, that sounds terrible. What a horrible creature! It eats everything, yet kills everything that eats it.

-Nick

...It eats everything, yet kills everything that eats it...

Ideally suited to resist natural selection. Darwin would have loved it...

Trust me. Darwin doesn't love them!!!!

"Would have loved it (this situation)", not "Them (The toads)"

Would have loved to find an organism almost-free from selection-pressure, as we, people are: we eat anything, and nothing eats us. What a treat. Being on top of the food-chain.

Now we have to share this position with a toad...

Different Darwin, the residents of Darwin NT are doing a good job keeping the out of town apparently.

...Turned out they eat everything except cane beetles...

Maybe they were built to government specifications ...

...a sure fire way to get rid of these...

Invite Thai entrepreneurs to export them for the Thai restaurant industry. It will probably save some poor dogs in Thailand which in turn, you can import into Ozzyland, to start a new such cycle, afresh !

What the..

"If anybody knows a sure fire way to get rid of these bloody things I can guarantee you will be a millionaire tomorrow. "

Some might suggest they are a new biofuel starting point...

I think I'm ready to puke.

BernieK

I saw documentry about the pests of Australia it seems that any thing non native gets out of hand. Mice, rabits, toads, humans. But even some natives as well there was a bird that lives on grain and had got to be a major pest because of its very large numbers. They found a large roosting site in the trees and dug trenches filled them with gasoline and explosives when the birds came home one night it all touched off and they got roasted. Perhaps holes could be dug for these toads to fall into and then they could be delt the same treatment. The hole would have to be bated or made atractive to the toads perhaps pheromone traps as they use to wipe out moths. The hole would need to be deep enough to stop the blighters from jumping out. Just a thought.

Australia has been isolated from the rest of the world for a very long time and the creatures have evolved to fill specialized niches in the ecology. Some native creatures do breed out of hand but this is rare and the number of creatures that have gone extinct or have become endangered in the last 200 years is frightening. Have a look at the echidna for example. You could be forgiven for thinking it is a large hedge hog of porcupine. The trouble is the echidna lays eggs and suckles it young. There is only one other creature in the world that dose this and that is the platypus which is also only found I Australia.

Australia is a very big place and the population is concentrated in small pockets near the coast. Over a third of the total population or Australia live in Sydney and Melbourne. For several years I worked as a field engineer for a computer company and was based in Adelaide. I also needed to look after the customers that were in the northern territory as well. As a result I needed to spend at least one week a month in Darwin. To give you some idea that is like living in Chicago and having to fly to Las Angeles then drive to San Diego to get to a customer. Add this to the fact that the only town of any size between Adelaide and Darwin is Alice Springs.

That means trying to eradicate any pest is going to mean a massive effort spread over huge areas that are sparsely populated that have few if any roads. You also need to be extremely careful that you don't hurt the native fauna or flora in the process.

I know Aus is big I can look down on it with the help of google earth. I used to watch Steve Urwin and others going on about your wild life and once considered moving out there. Due to a sudden loss of my health it all fell through. I have a good friend in Melbourn and so I know some of the problems you have.

Hi Brainwave,

I am sorry to hear that, I am sure that you would have found Australia a great place to live. I know what it's like to have your world turned upside down because of ill health and it is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. I hope you situation has improved since then. You may be interested to know that there is a serious skills shortage in Australia and if you can speak English and use a screwdriver as a hammer you are pretty much in.

We do have out problems and we like to complain about them but even so it's a really good place to live. If you ever get down under I will have a beer waiting for you

I just got too old now and have an older relative to care for, may be in another life.

Species are becoming extinct world-wide, not just in your beautiful country.

The main problem is that the rate of extinction is increasing.

It is being roughly estimated at about 60 species a day. a day. A DAY.

The Territorians make traps with flouro lights to catch toads. The birds you talk of are Cockatoos and believe it or not they are protected, despite being worth big money on the international market they are a protected pest here. The Flying Fox is another protected pest.

Don't think of eating snakes here as they too are protected.

Hmm.... You reap what you sow.....

ps- don't be a Hedgehog on a Scottish Island . They'll nail you ass for 1 GBP (Puffins = tourists = money) . The spiky dudes didn't ask to be put there. Oh well , we're going to get wolves soon so whats the difference. "Granma , what big ......"