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Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/16/2011 2:58 PM

Hi All,

I would appreciate your help in determining if there is any side pressure (force) on a container wall by using this configuration please? This is not a trick question, I need help to resolve this with out to much testing.

In the sketch attached, a free to move horizontal deformed plate is shown to be separating in half a parallel sided container. The upper half of the container is at a lower pressure to that of the bottom half of the container. (shown as P + and P -)
If the plate were "flat," (a straight horizontal line) then the higher pressure (+) would presumably act to push the plate upwards in direction, as a force shown by line A.

However, the plate is not flat, it is deformed into a right angle at B, and continues on to the other side of the container as an inclined plane (Bx2) such that the inclined plane's surface area is several times more than that of the right angle surface area (B).

Would the enclosed P+ pressure (acting uniformly in all directions) on the deformed plate, create a force on the side wall(s) of the container - shown as the line X?
(also in the opposite direction due to the vertical surface of B?)

Would the normal upward force (shown by line A) be reduced? (due to less "flat" area) or would it be increased, due to the larger (overall) plate surface area?
Would the inclined plane divert some of the upward force into a side ways horizontal
force, shown by X?
If the vertical face of B and the inclined plane of Bx2 do create "opposite direction" sideways forces, would the force, created by the smaller surface area of vertical face B (as compared to the larger area of the inclined plane Bx2) be less than the force created by the larger inclined plane, Bx2? i.e. would there be more force acting on the righthand side of the container than the left hand side of the container? (the l/hand force may be zero, cancelled out by the opposite r/hand force?)

If these assumptions are completely in error:
What would be the actual forces / directions in this configuration please?

Sorry if this is too simple, or not a good example. (mental block!)

Thank you for all your help.

jt.

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#1

Re: Help to Determine Side wall pressure please.

02/16/2011 3:22 PM

No matter how convoluted the "plate piston," when the proper trig functions are applied, various items "cancel out" so that the overall resultant forces are the same as if the plate were still flat.

If the fluid is liquid, its pressure varies with depth; if gas, essentially constant throughout the confines of the compartment.

(Were you hoping that this configuration would slide perpetually to the right?)

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#2

Re: Help to Determine Side wall pressure please.

02/16/2011 3:23 PM

Pressure acts normally to ALL surfaces. If you integrate the effect on the partition plate you have a vertical force and several horizontal forces coming from the pressure effect on the "B" and "2 x B" areas. But those areas are opposite to each other so that in principle if the plate is VERY stiff their effect on the wall would be nil. Since the plate is not infinitely stiff it will be deformed in horizontal direction and will exercise on the vertical wall a force function of the ratio of the 2 stiffness: wall/plate. This force will not be ONLY directed to the right but will act as well on the left wall.

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#3

Re: Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/16/2011 4:17 PM

If these assumptions are completely in error:

yes its all error assumptions.

pressure is uniformly and perpendicularly affect on all surfaces independent on containers shape.

it means that upward pressure, lower ward pressure, and side walls pressure will not change. it will be P+ for upper portion and P- for lower one.

acting force upon separator plate = (P+) -( P-) X cross section area between the two walls independent on separator shape

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#4

Re: Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/16/2011 6:17 PM

Rotate the cylinder 90°. How much surface area do you see?

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#5

Re: Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/16/2011 7:27 PM

Just as all the others have explained no change due to the shape. A simple analogy would be pistons of various configurations in engines. Smaller car engines more common, you will find piston tops shaped much like your drawing.

Some medium speed diesel engines are shaped perfectly due to the fact that they actualy rotate while in motion (EMD's). But yes this is getting off topic isnt it?

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#6

Re: Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/17/2011 2:41 AM

I would like to add some remarks. The partition is welded to the vertical wall. Under pressure this wall will deform increasing its diameter and thus pulling in radial direction the plate. The fact that due to its geometry the plate is deformed in SAME direction will reduce the strain at the interface plate wall, it could lead to a better overall behaviour since stress level decreases. The remark about rotating is justified for external forces in your case the problem is hyper-static and deformations under load play an important role. same comment for the piston example: the piston is free from a bond to the wall since it has to slide, the only force transmission (beside the angular effect of the connecting rod) is when due to a high temperature it would expand and press the cylinder.

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#7

Re: Help to Determine Side Wall Pressure Please.

02/22/2011 8:06 PM

Thank you all for the guidance - back to the drawing board for me.

If anything comes of it I will let you know. Thank you again.

jt.

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on the shoulders of giants. (mis-quoting Sir Isaac Newton.)

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