Power Balance of a Simple RC Circuit

I believe you have fallen into the classic trap many (if not most) people do of totally trusting the results of PSpice, even over theory and practical experience.

While PSpice (and other simulation software) are powerful simulation programs capable of simulating real world circuits they are still only simulations (and as such prone to generate results that are not possible in the real world due to component and circuit simplifications, user data errors, unexpected circuit interactions the program cannot accurately resolve, etc).

Try actually building the simple circuit and measuring the inputs and outputs, you will find that theoretical circuit analysis (and common sense) does hold in that (for your examples above) a passive RC and LRC filter circuit does not produce more power out than is put in.

Remember, PSpice is a great tool but it is only a tool and cannot take the place of real world circuit design and testing.

Like I said, I've carried out extensive experimentation on that circuit using Tektronix DPO2014 with a Hall effect current probe and the power balance turned out to be just as I reported it above. This power balance also comes about through theoretical assessment of the situation as well as due to purely algebraic reasons, if you wish. I urge you to try it with your equipment. Would be interesting to see what you'll get.

In your experiments, have you ever incorporated or even considered to account for all varying conditions and differing accuracies, (+/-%) in tolerances of all components used? Have you also consider the variations / % regulation of the power supply as well as the calibration and reading accuracies of your test instruments?

Your concerns about the accuracies and precision of measurement are legitimate concerns and, although I have made assessment of these and the effect is outside of the corridor of errors (so is it in PSpice), there may alway be omissions. The best way to deal with this, as is usual in science, is to present independent studies exploring the claim. However, I'd like to turn your attention to a purely theoretical argument which clearly demonstrates the effect I'm talking about which although inherent in the theory of electricity, hasn't been noticed so far. Please, follow this link: http://actascientiae.org/v/comments.php?DiscussionID=8&page=1#Item_2 . I'm new to this forum and I think there's no LaTeX in it. I would be very interested in your opinion regarding that argument which we mai discuss either here or on that forum in view of the LaTeX there.

I think the difficulty lies on the fact that electrical theories used where you based your experiments are kind of limited, when applied in the real world! I believe what you are trying to claim has been noticed, fully recognized that it is physically impossible to achieve.. Just like anything else in existence today, each has limits. Even in the applications of mathematics, boundary conditions has to be predefined..

Well, then, we have to identify the limitations of the theories (of electricity in this case). Unfortunately, they have not been identified and it is unlikely that something as simple and straightforward as the expressions for the current and voltage of a simple RC circuit can meet with any challenge. They are well understood as far as how they behave in such circuit. What has been missed, quite obviously, is the power balance at certain conditions due to these parameters. That has not been known until this study.

Limited Ohms law ..What has been missed, quite obviously, is the power balance at certain conditions due to these parameters.

Can you elaborate on that? What has been missed in terms of power balance in Ohm's law?

I still stand by my comments in post #1. Resistors, inductors capacitors and their interaction are well known and proven, even when alternating and non-linear waveforms are involved.

Have you set all the parameters in your Pspice models to the most real world accurate values? By this I mean that each component will have a certain resistance, inductance , capacitance and nonlinearity which will effect your overall results and power interaction, additionally these values will vary between component values and construction types. Even the wires connecting the components are not perfect lossless resistances. All these little things add up.

Additionally, in my experience, PSpice is notorious for giving you perfect undistorted constant amplitude waveforms based on an infinite capacity supply bus that is impossible in the real world.

I am not sure how far PSpice have gone in their model simulation and development, but it may be possible to produce a running model that would better allow you to monitor this expected Pout/Pin effect over time.

As I have said before on CR4, measuring non-linear waveforms (and power especially) looking for very small variations is fraught with problems.

HOWEVER, this isn't exactly an over-unity free energy generation discussion, and the results you are getting are interesting (even if they turn out to be just simple modeling and measurement errors) so I would suggest further investigation is warranted.

So what is your next step? I would advise ensuring your models of all your components are as real-world accurate as possible and then playing around with the PSpice values to get the largest Pout/Pin change possible, then try a practical demonstration using PSpice and a real world circuit. By practical, something along the lines of real-time and summation monitoring of the power over an extended period of time.

@jack of all trades, See, the problem is that the effect I'm putting forth comes about also purely theoretically based on what we know from the theory of electricity but furthered beyond what has been noticed so far. In order to support the last statement I would again refer you to the link I gave above (http://actascientiae.org/v/comments.php?DiscussionID=8&page=1#Item_2). As for a possible next step -- it would be very interesting to build a schematic, powered by a battery or a cap, that would prepare the proper I and V waveforms to be fed into the RC circuit in question. Then, if it is true that the input power is negative, we should be able to observa, in addition to the Joule heat across the resistor, continuous charging of the battery or the capacitor. Here's one interesting study which appears to do just that -- continuously charging the battery: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10174.0 . It very well may be that that's the schematic exhibiting the effect we're talking about.

Here's one interesting study which appears to do just that -- continuously charging the battery

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10174.0

Actually it doesn't. Have a closer look at the information provided in your link (and its associated links) and also at similar threads on CR4 regarding battery charging using pulses provided by the same battery as well as battery and capacitor memory and self charge. Batteries and capacitors do not work that way, it is just errors in data measurement, unrealistic non-real world modeling and incorrect interpretation of results. Do NOT use these incorrect 'findings' as a basis for your own data validation and interpretation.

order to support the last statement I would again refer you to the link I gave above (http://actascientiae.org/v/comments.php?DiscussionID=8&page=1#Item_2).

Yes I have read it way back when I wrote post #1. I am just going to concentrate on modeling and real world application based on my knowledge and experience (maths is not my strongest area of the three).

@jack of all trades, Don't get me wrong. I have not studied the device that causes the battery to charge so I can't vow for its veracity. It just seemed interesting to me and probably related to the effect I'm reporting. I would be curious to see that device first simulated with PSpice, as iffy the simulations might be, as you seem to consider them, just to see what the outcome will be. For someone experienced with PSpice it would be much easier to do than to actually build it and study it for days as the researcher from the link is doing.