Square Rigged Sail Wind Turbine

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Are you a patent attorney? It kinda sounds like it.

If you are "just" an inventor, I'd try to use common English terms instead of patent speak.

John's right. A picture or sketch would help, although the concept seems, as you say mostly common, prior art.

We just had a painful session with a sociopath who claimed to have invented the worlds most advanced wind harvesting system. He had no proof, no sketches, no photos, no calculations, not even a simple description of the concept. But he insisted that he could save the world.

I'm not suggesting that you are like him, at all. It seems that your concept would work.

Which sociopath would that be?

We have several people who fit that description here.

The new diagram is showing a smaller version of the same design. One that could be mounted on a rooftop for home use.

Sorry,

Now I get it. Your avatar is the turbine.

OK, can you post it in a larger format. I'm old and half blind.

GA to Lyn, for spotting that your avatar is supposed to represent your design.

Couple of points, regarding to your presentation (not your design).

1) Changing your avatar image is universal - every post you make or have made will have the same image, so it is not possible to review previous presentations.

2) The image is far too small to discern much useful information. This is all we have:

3) There is not enough information presented in one view; for a critical examination, you must provide a plan view, plus front and side elevations. An isometric sketch would be helpful for understanding.

As you have described you invention in sailing terms, I will couch my reply in the same language.

Assume that the wind is blowing from due south and track the motion of one of the four sails as it rotates through 360° starting at the most northerly point. Points of the compass are referenced from the central shaft.

The sail moves in an arc south easterly, fully restrained by the lanyard (the correct sailing term is "sheet" but that gets confusing for non sailors so I will stick with your terminology). The wind is initially beam on (at 90°) to the sail and it progressively turns into the wind. If the sail is constructed from a flat board, it would start it zero power generation, progressively increase power generation until it reaches north east and then progressively decrease power generation until it reaches east. If the sail is flexible, (canvas or polymer) it will belly to create a low pressure zone behind the sail, slip the wind and generate more power.

From east to south the lanyard ceases to have any restraining effect and the sail is parallel to the wind. Turbulence will create vortices and the sail will flog for this 90° of the rotation, creating vibration and dissipating power.

At due south, the sail completes its jibe, passing through the wind, and is now fully restrained by the yardarm. Power generation from south to west mirrors generation from north to east.

From west to "north" the sail is still restrained by the yardarm and the power generation curve is repeated. North is in "" because at some point close to north the sail wears, i.e. it swings violently through 90° and is brought to an abrupt stop by its lanyards.

I have three reservations about this design.

1 In sailing, you jibe a boat as quickly as possible, partly to maintain forward momentum but also to stop the sail from flogging itself to destruction. Your design has the sail flogging for 25% of the time. It lacks durability.

2 In sailing when you wear, the lanyard is shortened to minimise the impulse load as the sail passes through the wind, and then played out to achieve the new sailing configuration. On a boat, wearing as you describe would split the sail or carry away the mast. Your design imposes these loads four times every rotation. It lacks durability.

3 A transient occurs as you set any sail into a new position. It takes a little time for the sail to start to draw, or for the wind to establish a flow across the sail. In sailing this is not a problem because the sail is reset infrequently relative to the total time available. Your design resets the sails 8 times every rotation. The losses imposed by your bearings will absorb a large proportion of the power generated by the wind. It lacks efficiency.

As the diagrams indicate muliiple sail activity, there is at all times at least one sail entering into a headwind while at the same time at least one sail already being pushed by the wind in the down wind, and at least one open 90 degree leeward sail that is also being pushed by the wind. This makes up for any losses that may occur, and by no means effects efficiency.

The center of rotation main-shaft is protected by at least four vertical columns with cross bracing connected to the main-shaft in the middle and top, and coupled by self aligned split bearings. Three way guy wire two places on each column are anchored to the ground to add support. I would call this very durable. In no way would the main mast be carried away!

Centrifugal force imposed by the circular rotating sails moving away from the center of rotation eliminates flogging of the upwind leeward sails.

Best regards,

Jon Howard

do not post email addresses -Admin

Sorry I have taken a while to reply, but I have been away. It did however give me a 12 hours of flighting time with very little to do, so I indulged in some maths.

Assume that a conventional windmill has four sails each with the same area as one of your sails. The sails are set to the optimum angle of attack to generate the maximum energy at all times. We will define the amount of energy extracted from the wind as unity.

One of your sails is always parallel to the wind so generates no power. The other three sails pass through 90° from a position beam on the wind to a position parallel to the wind. The power extracted starts at zero increases to the maximum generated by a conventional windmill sail and decreases to zero again. The energy output curve is a sine wave from 0° to 180° which is 0.637 of the maximum amplitude generated continuously by the windmill.

So your maximum output, disregarding the time taken to establish draw, increased bearing losses and additional weight, is 3/4x0.637 =0.477' of unity.

Your sail is less than half as efficient as a two thousand year old design. I restate, your design is not efficient.

You claim that your sail does not flog, but it must flog once every time you wear through the wind. Multiply that by your rpm then multiply again by 4 because you have four sails, then multiply again by 10,080 to get the number of times your sails flog in a week. I restate, your design is not durable

Ok, I want you to know that I appreciate your efforts and time spent. I do have a couple questions regarding your calculations. With four sails, one parallel to wind generating no power, this is correct. The sail parallel to wind is also generating no drag, or resistance. (Next), As you say the other three sails pass through 90degrees from a position beam on the wind to a position parallel to the wind. (Correction), Please read comment #17, second paragraph. "Sails alternate freely in an arc of 45 degrees."

Also, you say my design must flog once every time as they wear through the wind... As sails pass through from the down wind closed at 45 degrees, to the up wind and reopen to 90 degrees from center, the total arc is only 45 degrees. As the sails reopen, tension control on the lanyard causes the sail to reopen slowly to compensate for rhythmic patterns.

"The sail parallel to wind is also generating no drag"

Herein lies a problem - there is no such thing as "no drag" in this scenario. [i.e. one half is not in a vacuum]

AND what the up-wind sail is doing is traveling a Ux2 - meaning basically, it has to have less than the cube root of 'drag' of the downwind 'square rig' - which - on the bright side, is moving at less than U due to 'power out', [so the upwind drag loss will be less, and less, as soon as you try to take power, less and less]

And I think he has been most generous in allowing "lift" in the coefficient - at all.

I appreciate your comments regarding this topic...

Best regards,

Jon Howard

Dear SRSWT,

your presentation is missing a few things, and the terminology is only confusing the issue. Please show the main concept, and tell us what you are looking for from us. Its the only way we can help.

I can't see what is novel or original about square rigged sails... sails is sails, and they are ancient. If you get a patent.. well more power to you... lol

I put a square rigged wind and water system on my Offshore Energy Plant idea back in '09.

there is of course all kinds of ideas to play with.. these are some of mine, also a couple of years old.

here is one belonging to Sceptic. here is one belonging to Randall

then this and don't forget this

(a short list, and not limited thereto.... )

Cheers,

Chris

The SRSWT:

Novelty features to this design are that it eliminates all residual resistance effect (drag) from the up-wind sails while efficiently increasing the down-wind sail ability to generate power. Combining these improvements has substantially increased RPM power, while driving higher absolute speed to the gearbox or generator. Best regards, Jon

Timelord, of the GE Ecomagination Challenge referred me to this link. He said that I might get an evaluation of my concept, from engineer's at this site. This is my purpose.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Jon Howard

henergyinnovations@gmail.com

Complex inventions are hardly tested and commonly starts a lot of for and against, but with a simple fan, coupple plastic,cartons or papermade sail you could prove your idea and save a lot of mindwork.Did you?.Suggestion: Try with just one "L":not an array,that proves the concept.Just for coupple sizes measure the harvested energy at differents RPM.-

Yes, in the initial testing we used an old phonograph for a spindle fit to support one cardboard small sail hinged at the outermost tip of two lateral cross peaces, plus a small fan. With only one sail we achieved a working progress!

Thanks,

Jon

You can patent anything, they don't even have to work.

I'm sorry to inform you, you have re-invented the cup anemometer

This a 'differential drag' based device, not a momentum capture device.

The idea of differential drag is the rotor will turn in a manner that the tangential velocity is a fixed ratio to wind speed. Say half.

A momentum based device will gain power [speed and torque] exponentially with wind speed. Yours will gain lineally. However it will start revolving in much lighter winds than a momentum capture device.

I would estimate your device is below the traditional Dutch windmill in Cp

I suggest you research and come to understand 'lift' - and then study the lift vector diagrams of say a Darius turbine.

In sailing terms; the slowest leg for a Tornado cat is the down wind run = "drag power" - you get "a speed".

The fastest is a tack into wind = momentum capture via 'lift' - you accelerate more as you point higher, 'gaining' relative wind, pointing higher, etc.

If the math is too confounding, as it is to most, go helm an Olympic class cat and think about what's happening.

I hope you have not spent much money on this.

A couple of comments that I failed to mention beforehand. The sails are lightweight parachute material double stitched and tightly stretched on the sail frame. The sail function is very efficient in a breeze, or in a gale force wind.

Testing was completed on our prototype with sails that alternate freely in an arc of 45 degrees. The drawings depict sails that open and close at 90 degrees. The sails do actually open to 90 degrees. Sails can also adjust to close at 45 degrees, to quicken the action and improve performance. You could say L, for open at 90 degrees and V, for closed at 45 degrees.

Flogging has never occurred on the open up-wind sails because of the centrifugal force that holds leeward sails in an open position. Tension control that keeps the sails from opening to rapidly can be accomplished by a bungee used as a lanyard, or by eliminating the lanyard and using spring loaded angled stops.

Best regards,

Jon Howard

henergyinnovations@gmail.com

Your stress and energy calculations go from bad to worse! If the sail only closes to 45°, then from south east to south the sail is not parallel to the wind but is acting against the thrust generated by the other three sails. The two sails in the sectors south to north are moving in the same direction as the wind so the relative wind speed is decreased, the two sails moving towards the wind have their relative wind speed increased. If your sail is rotating fast enough to create centrifugal force, this effect will be considerable. By only closing to 45° the losses are greater than the gains.

The sail now wears through 135° at north west so any gains made by having the sail close to 45° are immediately lost, and the stress on your mast has increased by 50%

Finally, your faith in the durability of even the most modern and sophisticated sail cloth, bungee rubber or spring loaded shock absorbers is sadly misplaced. I would estimate a working life of your contraption in weeks, or if it is big enough to generate any meaningful energy, in days.

Thank you for your response. Please view diagrams Fig. 1, and Fig 4A. Look at the two sails in the diagram that are closed completely in the down-wind. Make a mental picture of these two sails closed at 45 degree. Please tell me where do you find stress and where losses are greater than gains?

The wind turbine is scalable. Also, the sail width is adjustable according to residential, or industrial application. Decreasing the size of sails to half the width of figurative sails shown in the diagrams will accommodate a more suitable response to high wind velocity.

Best regards,

Jon Howard

Although, at any rate you do estimate that it, "could generate meaningful energy." I will except that as a positive Statement!

Thanks,

Jon

Adjusting the angle of pitch from 90 degree open, to 45 degree closed, at the tip of parallel horizontal yardarms, stimulates an improved performance in wind and in water. Sails can also adjust to function oppositely making rotation omni-directional, in any wind direction.

If wind is active, four stages take place:

1. Stage-A, Sail is trimmed closed 45 degree in the down wind direction, and in the process for power stage, - B.
2. Stage-B, Sail is broadside to wind bearing excessive push power in an intense rotating mechanical motion into stage, - C.
3. Stage-C, Combining centrifugal force with push-power, the sail opens trim, as it comes about into stage, - D.
4. Stage-D, Sail continues to remain in an open position, trimmed to the wind, then back to stage -A.

The concept is a viable process that can incorporate various techniques to achieve the same purpose…

Sails leaving the up-wind sector are entering into the down-wind and are positioned accordingly to the direction of wind… "The process does not work against itself."…

Your comment that,

"Sails coming from southeast to south are acting against the forward thrust generated by the other sails."

Sails are trimmed into there position by the direction of wind. At the moment sail's close to 45 degree, sail's are no longer parallel to the up-wind and are now entering into the down-wind, broadside to wind, and pushed with great intensity. This viable phase is in accordance with forward wind pressure and bearings on the mast. It does not in any way restrict rotation. When entering the northwest sector sail's begin to reopen leeward at 90 degree. At that point the open leeward sail's are also pushed by the down- wind, and centrifugal force as they begin to come about…

But your comments,

By only closing 45 degree the losses are greater than the gains - increasing stress on the main mast by 50%."… I must say, not only are your calculations unfounded, they are erroneously inaccurate… Never the less, and as always,

Best regards.

These are a couple of vector diagrams for vertical axis rotors I think you need to study.

Here is the whole paper

You will note if the diagram is solved the thrust vector is always an offset 'positively' with respect to the axis - meaning in all phases a blade is driving to some extent when the tip speed ratio exceeds U x 2

This is the difference between a momentum based device and a drag based device.

Nor are 'cyclic pitch' moving parts required.

Many Thanks!

Best regards,

Thank you for the vector diagrams of vertical axis rotors. The research proves a basis for scientific fact! "I stand corrected."

I presented two aspects of my design to you so far. The first example demonstrates sails coming out of parallel to wind that close completely on the yardarm. The second display has the sail coming out of parallel to wind closed 45 degrees on the yardarm. The third aspect will present sails that are open 90 degree in all four sectors, creating lift!

Best regards

Good luck with it.

Thank you!

Best regards,

A logical concept showing reinforced sails that are fixed in a 90degree angle on the yardarms to achieve relative lift while significantly reducing drag.

This design offers an improved dynamics of motion from wind to bring about a higher output of electrical power.

Best regards,

Congratulation Jon. You have now come up with a design that will not shake itself apart. It also will not turn, but that will minimise the wear on your bearings.

Assume that the sketch viewer is standing north of the rig and the wind is coming from directly behind the viewer.

Taking each set of sails in turn. The top set as drawn deflects as much wind to the east as it does to the west. So an equilibrium exists and no rotation is generated.

The next set of two sails appear to have the yardarms at 45° to the top set but the sails not at 90° to the yardarms. This will deflect wind to the east causing the rig to turn through a few degrees. The turning realigns the top set so that more of the west deflectors are presented to the wind, and less of the east deflectors. An equilibrium is again achieved and the rig finds a balance in a slightly altered position.

The lower two sets of sails mirror the upper two sets, so no rotation generated there either. Have you considered adding a motor and selling it to a sculpture park as a mobile sculpture?

I must say I did enjoy your comments. But one thing, I must say if the sails were all closed against the yardarms I could then agree with your findings. As depicted in the (green) diagram all sails are in a leeward position.

On a small mono hull Sloop if you turn the mainsail to the lee, the leeward sail will then turn the boat a full 360degree. "With help from a rudder." As the leeward sail brings the boat about blowing down wind or, coming back up into the wind, likewise, the vertical main-shaft (with bearings) takes the place of a rudder.

From the top down, the second and fourth sail assemblies are obscured showing two sails only for each. The footing for the front vertical column, along with the entire rear vertical column, the vertical main shaft axis, and corner bracing on lower three sail assemblies are obscured in this diagram

The description with your new sketch clearly says that the sails are fixed relative to the yardarms. The sail of a sloop is not fixed relative to the hull. A sail boat can only pass through the wind in two ways, tacking and wearing. In both cases the sail has to move relative to the hull (the bearing shaft in your case). Taking the top row the sails nearest to the viewer (north east and north west) are tacking while the SE and SW sails are wearing, but your fixed sails can't move relative to the shaft, so it won't rotate. In sailing parlance your rig is permanently "caught in stays".

I don't know which part of the US you live in, but as a serious constructive suggestion, find your most local lake with a sailing club, and ask if you can be taken out in a dingy for a couple of hours on a breezy day. Ask the skipper to tack and wear, to put the boat in stays, and on the reach. Observe that work has to be put in to the tiller (lever that drives the rudder) in order the reorientate the hull. Also note the strains on the mast and rigging, bearing in mind that the hull is not fixed in the water but is being pushed in the direction of the wind (making leeway) and tilts to spill wind if it gets too much. (Letting out the sail also spills wind. This is more about not capsizing and not as relevant to your investigation, but note how often it is done, because non of your designs can copy the procedure.) Your immovable frame will have to withstand multiples of the strain taken by the dingy rigging. Finally enquire what are the best materials for sails, how long the last, what that equates to in terms of continuous use, and what conditions can destroy a sail. Club dingy sailors are enthusiasts and almost always willing to take time to help you understand to finer points of sailing.

I want to start by saying thank you for all of the valuable comments and constructive suggestions regarding sailing, very informative. Also, I'm on the west coast.

I'll describe the concept this way. The lead sails have a scoop effect in wind. As you look at the green diagram with the wind blowing at your back, you can see which of the sails scoop wind. All other sails pass through the wind with little or no resistance. The sails can also adjust to a smaller width in comparison to figurative sails.

As the wind turbine prototype makes leeway (tacking) in a circular direction, the vertical columns with guy wire and cross bracing are the stays. The vertical main-shaft axes of rotation acts as a tiller and a rudder, eliminating the need for reorientation, and makes for a sturdy sailing vessel that will not tilt or capsize.

A power take-off stem under the main deck allows for an improved means of generator accessibility via a bevel gear (cog wheel). The generator can be placed on a trailer in a prone position and rolled back under the main deck to connect with the power take-off stem. The other end of the trailer can connect to a tractor fifth wheel to be hauled for servicing