Previous in Forum: "Japan Dumps Backup Planning"   Next in Forum: Siphoning Well Water
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Good Answers: 3

Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/07/2011 12:25 AM

I have fixed a few issues that the original video had and added some background music and a voice over. I really think the audio makes a huge difference. Video

My roommate is still working on the website. He is also making a larger version of the interactive animation that is in the upper left hand corner of our website. The larger interactive animation will allow you to interact with the engine from many different views and with the crankshaft visible or hidden. So far it is looking pretty cool. I will let you all know when it is ready.

My dad is almost finished with the 2.3 liter mock-up of the engine. It has an electric motor inside that shows how the engine rotates. A flex plate is bolted to one side to show how the engine will connect to a transmission. In the picture below, use the coke can in the background to judge the size. This is the actual size that 2.3 liters of displacement can fit in. (The mounting plate in the picture is connected to the port end of the engine. The ports would all be on this end despite them not being shown on the model).

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#1

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/07/2011 1:53 AM

Hi. Lot of hard work there! Two points if I may. I see a gear on the outer drum. I hope you don't expect to get torque from there or give torque for starting. It would just 'twist' the mesh, the connecting rods get less "concentric" and depending on design detail will propubly interfere with outer drum or/and the cylinder end line. This 'twisting' also at best will lower compression ratio. I hope you understand what I'm saying, it would be just like trying to get torque from the common -loose- crankshaft to rods bearing of an asteroid multi-cylinder engine and not from it's crankshaft. (or is that gear just for demonstration moving reason?) Sorry haven't followed your project from start. Other than that and also the possible cooling problem on a revolving cylinder block think you have something there. Best of lack.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Good Answers: 3
#7
In reply to #1

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 12:59 PM

The outer housing and cylinder block rotate 1:1. They are connected together with six synchronizing rods. We have a video that talks about them here.

The cylinder block and outer housing are constrained to the crankshaft so that they can only spin. The sync rods add constraints between the housing and block so that they can not spin separately. My dad thought of the sync rods just a couple of years ago. I think they are a very elegant solution especially when compared to having sets of gears, belts or chains between the two components.

Our previous prototype used these sync rods and had no issues turning over when power was applied to the outer housing.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#10
In reply to #7

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 7:38 PM

Smart guy your dad to come up with this, but from first view each sync road passes 2 points of 'uncertainty' every rev, (at the times it's parallel to the cylinder) and this could cause overstressing on it. But since you tested it OK fine by me. Round shape is not the best concerning rigidity to moment of inertia ratio but at this stage is also OK. Fin cutting plus oil spraying on cylinder block tops can help on cooling also, but then you must come up with a way to get back the oil that will stick (because of centrifugal) on the housing inner face (have some ideas). Or the whole thing will be contained inside another shell? Not a bad idea. But issues like that could be worked out on simpler prototypes (2 or 3 cylinders) for lower cost, so not let some briliant idea to crash on dull details like that. Will be watching this. Best of luck!

P.S centrifugal will also possibly give you an oil starvation issue that must be addresed.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 468
#2

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/07/2011 9:11 AM

Very nice job on the video!!

I can't tell you how awesome it would be to one day open the hood of a car and find one of those in the engine compartment.

Keep up the good work!!

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#3

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 5:46 AM

I am very sceptical, I don't know what the actual weight is of the rotating mass, but all I see is a giant gyroscope, with all its inherent problems when in a moving vehicle.

It could cause a vehicle to not turn at a corner, many people under estimate the "strength & power" of a large gyroscope.....

This engine "may" be ok for a fixed usage in a building, but never in a million years for a vehicle....

I have completely ignored the problems of power take off that someone else here has already mentioned adequately......

This engine still needs some development work.....

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Good Answers: 3
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 1:21 PM

We get this concern a lot. The original rotary engines (Gnome and Le Rhone) had huge gyroscopic forces that caused the airplanes they were on to not bank so well in one direction and to turn very well in the opposite direction. But the forces won't be an issue for the DRE.

The DRE has significantly less spinning mass than conventional engines. Utilizing aluminum for the outer housing, cylinder block and rods keeps the weight very low. How many conventional engines use aluminum for the crankshaft? Toss in the fact that they have to add large counterweights to the crank and the weight begins to skyrocket.

Another considerable mass added to the spinning components of conventional engines is the harmonic balancer. This makes up for the flexing of the crank. Our outer housing will be more structurally sound than a crank because of its shape. This means we can save weight by not needing the mass of a harmonic balancer.

The weight of our cylinder block and outer housing are pretty light but if the engine made it to production they would be even lighter. Weight would be saved on the cylinder block because the cylinder sleeves could be cast into the block and cylinder retainers and screws would not have to be added. Also, a casting can save much more material than we can with our CNC machines. The outer housing could also be cast as one piece. This would save the weight of the fasteners and allow more complex shapes to be made in order to retain strength while also saving weight.

Also, if we do get the efficiency gains that we show in the advantages section, a 4.2 liter engine would be a monster sized engine. This would mean that cars that normally use a large V6 with ~90 pounds of spinning mass could instead use a smaller DRE with just over half the spinning mass.

The proof will only come from prototypes and all we can do here is theorize. We are hoping that our exhibit at the SAE world congress will peak the interest of someone and lead to us receiving some prototyping money. This will get us closer to answers much quicker.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member Technical Fields - Architecture - New Member Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 2168
Good Answers: 71
#4

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 8:22 AM

I agree that you have done some excellent work on this project. Very impressive. I'm also curious about the cooling system.

__________________
Tom - "Hoping my ship will come in before the dock rots!"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#5

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 9:04 AM

Very interesting concept. I'd love to see the test data an engine like this actually produces. I have to imagine the combustion chamber and all the heat concentrated in one spot will be challenging. I only watched it once but I didn't see how the ports get sealed? Nice video work.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 10:16 AM

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 65
Good Answers: 3
#9
In reply to #5

Re: Doyle Rotary Video With Audio!

04/08/2011 1:28 PM

Because the DRE only has one combustion chamber it becomes cost effective to add ceramic coat to its walls. In conventional engines, ceramic coatings add up cost when there are multiple combustion chambers. This will help to minimize the temperature of the combustion chamber.

Also, unlike in a conventional engine, huge amounts of heat are not lost because of the exhaust valve opening before the power stroke has finished. Utilizing more of the heat means that the initial amount of fuel being burned can be lower. This leads to the same amount of work from a smaller heat source.

The apex, side and corner seals seal against sealing sleeves and plates that are pressed into the cylinder block. These surfaces will be hardened and chrome plated to the specs used by Mazda in their rotary engine. The cylinders are exposed to various ports as they cross the seals. These seals separate the strokes of the engine.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

ADoyle88 (3); Andy Germany (1); Fredski (1); JohnDG (1); kramarat (1); SimpleMind (2); Tom_Consulting (1)

Previous in Forum: "Japan Dumps Backup Planning"   Next in Forum: Siphoning Well Water

Advertisement