Uses for discarded plastics

they are making plastic bags that rot in the open air and with bacteria now. Laws are needed to force these into universal use

they are making plastic bags that rot in the open air and with bacteria now

These were tried in the UK for a while , but they have to be exposed to light if photo-degrading and this doesn't happen most of the time (straight to landfill ) . The bags that break down with Enzymes (from corn-starch I think) have been used , but to a very limited extent . A better option is to get people to use old fashioned string bags and re-use them .

In Argentina for example, collect and recycle plastic is too expensive. Its cheap buy new plastic, make more bottles and... let stay here.

I know for sure that these are collected by rag pickers and later channelised into a re-processing industry ( like the one you said 'buckets'). But anything that gets converted,the cost involved in getting out a useful product is way far more than the actual product produced. Given a option i am sure even you too would rather buy than processising it. So what is there in for them??. As it is, plastics a very cheap, and recycling of it......god is gotto save them economically.

On the other hand if you wanna really channelise as an volunteer would suggest to collectively drive the law to levy pre-processing tax on virgin plastic itself. Later which could be used for recycling on subsidised price. Hence meeting the cost of processing to cost of the product.

On the out of box idea, without cleaning and stuff, just add a little more junk and melt it to have underneath roof ceiling product, atleast during rainy days these poor can have leak proof roog while taking care of PH value and other stuff.....

You pose an interesting challenge.

There are huge amounts of "discarded" plastics in the USA. Law generally requires embedded labelling of the class of plastic in it's initial application. If recycled, it is sorted by class and processed into many products. Some second generation products range from "light structural lumber", pipe, mail boxes, sign stock, to containers including bags. The list goes on.

The question becomes which types of plastics are available, what configurations, and in what volumes? Then what are the skills/capabilities of the community or region being considered?

Sometimes, ingenius products come from slight modifications of the original container (for example) to make it a marketable item possibly functionally or as art. This would probably be a simpler approach than trying to establish a relatively precise process of reprocessing recycled input into renewed raw material and then into "finished goods". This requires energy input with relatively precise temperature and pressure control plus molds and/or extrusion forms.

The plastics guys & gals will probably tell us where I'm wrong ... but it is my best guess for third world countries.

Dumb thought ... clay is used for construction in many areas ... how about capped empty soda bottles buried in the walls of buildings (not large multi story) as thermal insulators (or thermal delays). Caution, if tempture variations are very large, sealed bottles will expand/contract which needs to be taken into consideration when used as construction material. With proper orientation, bottles could allow light into the interior of the building.

Hope this helps until you get better info from the pros!

First of all I object to your saying "Third World countries". Which

world you belong to? Fourth world? You, developed countries are

and have spoilt the rest of the world by pumping unwanted technologies

which has either failed in your countries or you realised the hazards it

can and already created. After pumping these you only cry wolf, saying

the material is banned due the effect of such material on the Ozone layer

etc., etc. Now it you First and Second World countries have to take care

of all this rubbish generated. I suggest that you take back all the rubbish

from this what you said Third World Countries and do whatever you want,

but don't dump into Amazon forest or into deep seas. May be you pulvirise

them and use for filling your drive ways etc. You see a lot emotion in this

reply. I am just fed up of this developed countries. Please leave us alone.

We have been living without your technologies for ages unknown.

The best way to handle the plastic and for that matter any waste is to stop

generating one. Don't use plastic and don't generate plastic waste. Simple.

My details:

R. GANAPATHI RAO,

Research Associate,

C-DOT,

Electronics City,

BANGALORE,

INDIA-560 100.

Stop producing plastics isn't quite possible considering they're used across a broad spectrum of applications. I do think that brainstorming for ways to reuse / reprocess / recycle plastics is a noble suggestion to begin with and we should approach this in the best interest of global humanity regardless of where we are physically.

I believe plastics are produced in large volume in both developed and developing countries. The biggest difference between these two worlds would be the fact that developed countries have much stricter environmental policies and better waste disposal technology compared to the latter.

Education plays a big part in creating social awareness and I must admit there's a great deal of room for improvement in developing nations when it comes to saving Mother Earth. Nonetheless, this problem is highly debatable as it involves so many different variables. On top of that, when political correctness comes into the equation, things become much more complicated. Ironically, doing the right thing (recycling and all that jazz) costs more money than producing more of these plastics.

The developed nations must understand that going green comes at a price tag many couldn't afford and unless a cheaper technology is introduced, there's very little motivation for people to go mainstream with the present green technology. On the other hand, developing countries must begin to address their people on the importance of recycling and minimizing day-to-day wastes. Speaking as someone who lives in a developing country, I know many of my peers who couldn't care less about this topic we're discussing on.

Anyway, kudos to the guy who initiated this thread. Economically-friendly green products and technologies are the real long term solutions to this problem. It's all about the money...

Good job Mr. Rao. They say that we can't just stop production of plastics, and unfortunately I would bet that they're correct. People in the US (perhaps other places too, I don't know) have become too lazy and comfortable with all our conveniences of modern day. Including not taking your own shopping bags to the stores, milk in plastic bags and jugs instead of reusable jars, Styrofoam "clamshells" for carryout dinners... The list goes on and on and on. I just try to do my part but I doubt it makes any difference other than the vain attempt to prevent being a hypocrite.

Someone here has a sign off quote that goes something like: At the end of the day when all is said and done, more is always said than done. I like that and try to keep in mind when ever I go to open my mouth.

"They say that we can't just stop production of plastics, and unfortunately I would bet that they're correct. People in the US (perhaps other places too, I don't know) have become too lazy and comfortable with all our conveniences of modern day."

IF crude oil prices continue to rise, this may "change" market behavior. There is current discussion of moving to more "paper" based packaging. BUT ... then there is the ethanol (from cellulose) effort under way.

I believe this leaves the USA market and plastics in a state of flux.

Side comment: Some States require deposits on recyclable plastic and glass containers.

Good side comment, S Houston. When I lived in New Mexico -a state without a bottle bill - the sides of the roads were littered with beer cans and soda bottles. Now that I'm back in the Northeast (and living and traveling across states that require deposits on such recylables), I see far less littering.

Just one man's observation . . . .

side comment: Some States require deposits on recyclable plastic and glass containers.

When I was a kid all drinks etc came in refundable bottles , unfortunately we lost that for convenience . It really should be bought back - cleaner streets , and it was a great way to boost my pocket money . It's a bit like getting people to use string bags for groceries - almost everybody will buy cheap disposable ones . I wonder if the simple expedient of banning disposable plastic bags in supermarkets is viable ?

Thanks for your compliment. Don't stop!! Even I have been tempted to

stop talking about all this plastic rubbish. But seeing the plight innocent

animals which consume these plastic and wait for painful death, is pushing

me stronger towards non-usage of plastic. I always carry a cloth bag with

me and would not buy if I am not carrying one unless I can hold the purchase

in hands, pant & shirt pockets. People have laugh at me when I carry things

like this. People also laugh at for carrying a bag. You must aware of the

Indian tradition of giving THAMBOOLA to the guests attending marriage other

functions. Earlier they were either using a paper bag or a cloth bag (especially

Yellow bag, for yellow being auspicious). Tamilnadu, a souther state of India,

had and to small extent still has the tradition of Yellow Bag (Manjappai), but

people look down upon those who use these, which is leading to gradual vanishing

of this tradition and people have gone a step ahead and started using Yellow

Plastic bag with same look and feel. But when I held the house warming ceremony

I was strict in not using plastic or paper bag for Tamboola, instead I caught hold

of a colleague from Madurai (The temple city of South India) and bought 150 bags

at the cost Rs. 3/= per bag. Though in the beginning most of guests made fun of

me for being old fashioned, later on realising the utility of the bag, they have begun

to appreciate my idea. The bag has God's photos printed on it, so all my guest

have been using it for visiting the temples. But when they go for shopping either

their carry a carry-bag or demand a carry-bag from the shop keeper.

Almost everyday I have fight with my wife regarding usage of plastic carry-bag.

She keeps telling me just one guy like you will not make any difference. Some time,

as I already said, I get tempted to say "to hell with the environment, I will also start

using plastic for everything" but somehow not been able to do that. So please please

don't give up. See now across the world you have supporter. Keep it up.

R. GANAPATHI RAO,

C-DOT,

ELECTRONICS CITY,

BANGALORE

INDIA-560100

Mr. Rao,

It's interesting that you live in Bangalore and ask the developed countries of the world to "please leave us alone"? There are some in the U.S. who wish that places like Bangalore would "leave us alone" when it comes to the loss of engineering and manufacturing jobs. Those who have been outsourced would probably accept a bushel of plastic in exchange for a lost paycheck.

Do you see how it cuts both ways?

Moose

Don't buy it then. Simple

There is a growing interest in recycled mixed plastic [RMP] in the UK. Docks and harbours/harbors are using this material increasingly as the fender material to prevent damage to dock structures by the movement of large ships rubbing against them; in nature it is fairly slippery and resilient, and performs better in this environment than large baulks/balks of wood. Increasing numbers of park benches and rural signposts are being made in RMP for the same reason.

In the north American continent, RMP is being used to mould/mold railway/railroad sleepers/ties. http://www.americanrecycler.com/12chicago02.html - sorry, link no longer available

Here in Canada we do not have an underclass of rag pickers. People must be paid a lot more than the recyclable items are worth to collect them.

We do need better enforcement and better collection means. Make sure there is a waste bin every 50 meters on streets so no-one need go more than that to properly dispose of waste. Arrest, fine and jail people who discard trash to the street. Same for people who discard from vehicles.

We actually have laws for this now that are not enforced at all.

In an ideal world each item would have a serial number RFID coded in it. You buy an item the system knows you own it, and you pay a small deposit. If a police officer finds it on the street they automatically assess you a fine. When you dispose of it properly the container reads the serial number and reports the safe disposal and gives you a small credit.

In time it will come.

In the north American continent, RMP is being used to mould/mold railway/railroad sleepers/ties

I live in Argentina (South America), is any new continent as you said and we have not be noticed?

Please advise the collection and uses of recycled mixed plastic [RMP] in the south American continent?

RMP was not observable in a recent brief trip to Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Brazil, having sampled rail travel in both Peru and Argentina. The economics of RMP manufacture and distribution presumably do not compete so well with wood for railway/railroad sleepers/ties in a region where wood is so abundant? Or is it that the processing facilities required have not yet been developed there?

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/c25719

(Usual disclaimer.)

Excellent link Slack! Thanks!

Instead of sorting by plastic type and remelting, what about developing a process to wash and shred waste plastics or all types and then assembling the resulting shreds into various products/shapes? For example, sheeting products for many uses, fibers for blending with concrete or wood composites, mats-rugs-pads-sacks, etc.

There is a not-for-profit organisation working in partnership with a plastics moulder in the NE of the UK doing just that (usual disclaimer applies).

With the downturn of the availability and quality of previously-used timber railway sleepers as a feedstock for the nation's heritage lines, it does appear to be one of the areas that a suitable non-timber substitute, having the same or better mechanical performance while retaining the ability to accept a number of different fastening systems, would do well in.

Used vehicle tyres are already being turned into rugs-mats-pads, etc., here.

Diesel fuel?

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/1694/Pentagon-Funds-Research-on-Fuel-Convertible-Plastic

I can see why Mr. Rao got annoyed at the post...it did seem a little arrogant to state that third world countries have a lot of trash. Well, they do, and so do "first world" countries. Though I do take exception to the idea that India is "undeveloped", it is definitely a developed country! I personally deplore these labels. It sounds like places such as India are somehow "second class", when in fact, they are not!

The question is very valid however. And perhaps there is a cottage industry that could take advantage of old plastic bags.

I bought some shingles one time that were made from re-cycled plastic bags, bottles, and apparently old vinyl siding. They were supposed to look like slate, and they did, and though expensive, they were a LOT lighter than real slate, and much less likely to fracture in the frost. As far as I could tell, the mechanism to create sheets, billets, or extrusions of this material is really not so complex. Just a hopper to shove the stuff in, a digester to heat it to melting point, and a ram to drive the goop through an extruder. The advantages of course are many....water resistance, rot resistance and ability to hold a nail are very useful characteristics. Such materials are not considered to be "third world" "second class" materials at all, in fact, they are considered to be high end stuff. A first class product like slate roofing tiles or patio "stones" could be manufactured by a cottage industry anywhere.

Cottage industries are the future of a lot of businesses. Ottawa has a truck with a "big" vacuum cleaner on board which they use to suck up trash....I bet that would reduce the labour considerably! It doesn't seem like much money would be required to get a business like this off the ground!

And I forgot to sign in...but this is Yusef1

stag@cyberus.ca

I can see why Mr. Rao got annoyed at the post

C-DOT are very much involved in the whole issue if India having it's own technology and self determination etc (If I have understood correctly) , which is one reason why the notion of 'foreign' technology may be emotive . I hope he comes back to this thread , since people are discussing ideas , not trying to impose something on any body . We need people like Mr Rao to help spread the know-how , so we can all do our own bit in our own back yard . The 'West' could probably learn a lot from 'developing' countries such as India and china - they have no shortage of innovative thinkers who can look at problems we have from afresh.

First, let me apologize for using the term "3rd world" countries ... it was not intended to be derogatory ... I was trying to imply "less technology and lower economic strength".

It is very clear that "waste" (and its' management) is a problem in all communities, nations, and economies. Plastic is simply one of the more "durable" byproducts of consumption.

Regarding the "extruded plastic slate" ... CAUTION: as a building material the flammability (burn) characteristics need to be considered with great care!

I think you may have clicked the reply tab on my post by mistake - I could see your meaning , and I'm pretty sure that anybody else would realize there was no derogatory intent. It's just one of those things that can happen when relying on the written word . Kris

Here is a stunning link of a talk by Captain Charles Moore about his discovery of the problems involving plastics and recycling of plastics.

He explains how 100 billion pound a year will not get recycled. His surprising discovery is that the 100 million beverage bottles, the bottles made of PIT sink, and their caps are made of polyprolene which floats. The bottles are not a problem, they just sink. Its the caps and retainer rings which are the real problem.

Please check out his lecture...

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/capt_charles_moore_on_the_seas_of_plastic.html

It will startle you, and will offer a solution.