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Anonymous Poster #1

Intelligent Airco Processor

04/27/2011 10:43 PM

Good day all.

I have a 3 house town house, of which I want to control the AC flow.

So this is home work. (home automation)

The first floor has each one return duct and one feed.

3 returns in total and 3 feeds - the ducts are 18" styrofoam and have butterfly valves, that can open with 90 degrees.

There is a distribution box with 3 channels in it.

The second floor has 28 individual outlets for the rooms, each separately damped in the attic. The airbox has 4 butterfly valves: 3 of 16" and one for the attic ring duct

of 24".

Per room I need a temperature control, a proximity system (to detect if there are people or not) and a door switch And Window switch that closes the damper if open. (same for no people detection)

The dampers have all a 6" span (between open and close)

The butterly valves can operate the same way.

Nothing is on it yet: I operate it manually which makes me do a lot of trips to the attic and garage, where the technical room is situated.

Besides this - since I operate the whole house combination with only one 5 ton

unit - Styro house, thermal doors and triple glass.

I have been looking to as much wireless and digital as possible.

Any of you engineers have experience with this?

Need hints for materials to automate this.

Thank you for any help.

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#1

Re: Intelligent Airco processor

04/27/2011 11:03 PM

I don't understand any of the large valves/dampers. They seem superfluous. Can't you just control the small outlets to individual units/rooms/registers?

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Anonymous Poster #1
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Intelligent Airco processor

04/27/2011 11:56 PM

As far as the design all works well. The houses are not permanently occupied.

So it is comfortable to shut off the flow of the first floors from one central point.

The rooms upstairs have individual flaps, built in the big styrofoam pipes.

The first floors are mono rooms - all in one - dining - kichen - living - one space.

The small outlets have no individual - automated - dampers. Just regular grilles.

All is designed as energy saving project. Times, places have to be programmed open windows and doors - non used rooms taken into account and individual settings (per room) need to have a central override.

(Like now sometimes the hidden second thermostat is used to control the "economy climat" - otherwise the occupants go for the maximum - they do not pay the power bill)

I guess a kind of PLC or computer needs to centralize - flaps and valves with actuator need to adjust the flow or turn it off.

Also compressor RPM and Fan speed need to be controlled. proportional to the required flow.

To avoid the wiring I would go for digital radio or grid pulse triggered gear.

Siemens has stuff for Europe (domotechnika) but I only have 120Volts/60 Hz here.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Intelligent Airco processor

04/28/2011 1:37 PM

mistakenly named domotechnica instead of domotica.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Intelligent Airco processor

04/28/2011 2:02 PM

I might be wrong, but the domotika system refers to management of appliances, lights, dimmers and household tasks.

You have to deal with a lot of parameters in the system, like sensors for temperature, ON- OFF states, flow sensors, speed controllers for the motors and you might want to use actuators with a potentiometer to position the valves and flaps.

I think this needs more than a domotika unit. Roughly about 200 Input/ 50 output addresses.

Using a (modular) PLC will still need a lot of wiring and a "home made" programme.

Perhaps it is easier to look for a interface and addressable wireless switches with a

program via your PC?

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#5

Re: Intelligent Airco Processor

04/29/2011 4:25 PM

You need a DDC system!

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#6

Re: Intelligent Airco Processor

04/29/2011 8:15 PM

Search for DDC systems, Honeywell is one company and there are others in the field.

You need a system made of compatible equipments like Thermostats , dedicated PLCs, Input output modules and some programing facility that comes with them...

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Anonymous Poster #1
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Intelligent Airco Processor

04/29/2011 11:11 PM

DDC.

Fredski and LAA Lucke.

It smells expensive, but I want to check out what is on the market.

Thanks for the hint.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Intelligent Airco Processor

04/30/2011 7:42 AM

They are expensive but if you want individual zone control with the ability to sense when the room is occupied you really don't have any other choice. These are the systems almost all larger buildings have gone to, pnuematics are the past. One really nice thing about them is because all the components are digital you can be across the planet and "call them up" on your computer and set parameters. You can even do some minor troubleshooting without being anywhere near your place.

If you want as much control as you say this is the way to go.

Note: You didn't provide any pictures or schematics so I can't be certain of what you have. You mentioned shutting off certain areas. I hope whatever equipment you have is monitoring high and low pressures. AC and heat pump systems like to have a certain amount of air crossing their coils or they start protesting and the life of key components start to nosedive.

Good luck with your system.

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#9

Re: Intelligent Airco Processor

05/02/2011 7:47 PM

Friend of mine automated his whole house. Then lightning struck his house, all, and I mean ALL of his fancy electronics failed. Better still the triac's in the controls all failed ON, which is of course the predominant failure mode (short circuit).

You can automate - but for myself, I believe in a dumb house, one that has no mind of its own and that when I turn something off, it stays off. But that's just me, do have fun with your automation but be aware of its vulnerabilities.

FYI, I'm an Electrical Engineer working in aerospace control systems.

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Anonymous Poster (2); dvmdsc (2); Fredski (2); grtbluyonder (1); LAA_Lucke (1); Tornado (1)

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