Clyde Fountain

Exactly my point. A GA for you. The OP must follow a certified standard and pay for that standard.

The OP though has implied an impossibility. You cannot build just one fire rated cabinet to obtain certification. Even if he follows precisely the building recommendations that exist in NFPA 30. To obtain certification there must be at least two cabinets identically built. After one cabinet gets fully tested and passes by an accredited third party lab then and only then will the other cabinet be certified.

This is why few people fabricate their own fire rated cabinets, they buy them.

Thank you redfred.

You hit on several points that are important to this discussion. I get a number of customers every month who wish to build their own 'fire rated door'. There are a number of reasons given for these desires, and they all have some merit.

HOWEVER, if the fire rated items must stand the scrutiny of an inspector, they will fail. Untested (by an independent lab) = unproven. Just because "It ought to work" does not mean it will. An inspector or insurance underwriter will not hang his hat on farmer engineering when certification is available.

And a 90 minute 'burn time'? Where is the supression and annunciation system, and the fire department?

[edit] While I was composing, lyn checked in with a very similar comment. Didn't mean to step on you. As redfred says, more emphasis!

I agree with the two gents before me that this should be purchased from a certified supplier of flammable storage systems, not fabricated by you.

No insurance company I'm aware of would underwrite a facility with such a "home made" flammable storage system. (You'd at least have to build two. One for testing and one for the customer, if #1 passes whatever tests are required by the city/county/state/national regulations and the insurer.)

Sorry redfred, I'm repeating some of what you said.

flammable storage systems

No problem. I like the emphasis.

Alternatively you could relocate the chemical storage to a designated safe area, say outside away from the building(s) in a concrete bunker (or similar).

This storage method is very common for chemical storage and may be an easier and cheaper alternative (depending on the size of the storage cabinet and local standards and regulations).

Hi Guys

I am from South Africa. We are attempting to develop a South African Flammable Storage System for South Africa with the assistance of all the main role players including the SABS. SAFPS, SASOL and many others. I must admit that it was foolish of me to ask for assistance in the manner in which I did and i'd like to thank those persons that have taken the time to respond thus far. I have found your comments most valuable and somewhat condescending and pedantic. Here I simply refer to comments such as "home-made, Binary and others". Remember that even Bill Gates business started of as "Home-made".

Let me start again...

There are 24 variants of cabinets that we wish to produce after we (SA) develop a standard which we are busy with. Is there any normal persons out there with positive input directly relating to the DESIGN & MANUFACTURE of these cabinets.

Every major Project starts with little steps.

Regards

Clyde Fountain

Awaiting assistance without judgment

I am sorry Fountain, but I have no "...positive input directly relating to the DESIGN & MANUFACTURE of these cabinets." when performance criteria for these cabinets have yet to be defined.

Pedantic? Condescending? Not intentional on my part, and I honestly don't see either in the other comments. Would you rather I display my ignorance?

Thank you for the input.I am looking for more serious input

I'm sure that your undefined collection of acronyms are then South African agencies of one kind or another. I do not recognize any of them. Regardless of their names, if they do not already have procedures for the handling, usage or disposal of chemicals they are not authorities on any aspect of chemical storage cabinets.

I again recommend that you purchase the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), Occupational Safety and Health Agency (OSHA) standards on cabinet requirements. I would also purchase several standards from other countries. To formulate a new set of standards you should build from an authorized basis. CR4 is not a provider of these standards.

Now when you misunderstand or get confused about the meaning of any of these very cryptic standards, come back with a pertinent question and we will be happy to debate the meaning. I'm certain that somebody here will be able to translate and/or explain why something is in the standard. (I'm also certain that several here will consider the standard in question as excessive. You'll have to sort out who to believe.)

You are absolutely correct that every major project starts with little steps. We can be a helpful part of this project. But CR4, itself, has no authority on safety standards. You need authorized standards.

I must admit that it was foolish of me to ask for assistance in the manner in which I did and i'd like to thank those persons that have taken the time to respond thus far.

You really should have explained your application more clearly. Your current explanation of your application is quite different from your first attempt.

Well you have mentioned you working with the assistance of the South African Bureau of Standards, the South African Fraud Prevention Service (for some reason) and the chemical company SASOL which is a good start.

You need to purchase and read all the applicable standards relating to this commercial product you are intending to design and build. This must be one of your first steps and there should be plenty of general information in the standards to give you an idea on how to start.

There are 24 variants of cabinets that we wish to produce after we (SA) develop a standard which we are busy with.

This is confusing, are you attempting to create a new or alternative standard or are you working with the standards authority assisting them to update or create a new standard or are you waiting for the standards authority to create or revise the new/current standard?

Can you provide more information and describe exactly what you are planning please.

Hi Jack of all trades

Thank you kindly for your response and as you have mentioned. we (SA) are in the process of establishing a standard for South Africa as there is no current standard in place. These cabinets are currently fully imported so there has been no need for the SABS to get involved thus far. We are working with the South African Bureau of Standards (SABS) and the South African Fire Protection Services (SAFPS) and a few other key players.

There is Focus group currently drafting the SA standard using the European std, Australian std and the American std which I have copies of. Apart from a few Local requirements and Bylaws there should be very little difference.

I have a fully equipped Toolroom with CNC machines, Presses, etc, but my field of expertise is Automotive Press Tool manufacture. I also have a Sheet metal Division (with CNC Bending capability) that manufactures Low-cost Windows, Doors & Frames, etc for the local market.

I have already completed the Basic Construction design of the Test unit (and the Control unit). I need assistance with verifying my design and details for the Thermostat controlled Door closing mechanisms, Door sealing solution/s, Ventilator / Exhaust systems and the Ducting system.

I will need to strip and basically destroy an existing imported unit, so I decided to ask for assistance.

Thanking you for your positive response

Regards

Clyde

If it were me doing this (and I have done similar projects in the electrical field) I would also do a search for any standards relating to the cabinet design, construction, testing, etc.

Many products reference a number of different standards and although you may have copies of the main (or general) standard there may be others directly relating to design and construction that are vital to your product development progress. A search of the standards websites should offer more information. Yes standards are expensive but what you are doing is going to be an expensive undertaking. Many even include the test procedures and equipment that the labs will use to perform the testing to the standards (giving you the opportunity to design and test the prototypes yourself to a limited extent before actual lab testing).

I need assistance with verifying my design and details for the Thermostat controlled Door closing mechanisms, Door sealing solution/s, Ventilator / Exhaust systems and the Ducting system.

I don't know and haven't read the standards you are using, but this information should be available to a certain extent within those standards. At the very least there are test criteria and material restrictions that need to be met so any solution you provide needs to meet the test criteria.

I would also get as much information as possible (internet search, company websites, existing market products, looking at existing products, etc) before you even start designing and building a prototype. You seem to be at the prototype stage so I hope you have done this.

Once you are happy with your prototype you will need to get it tested at a lab to a standard (either an existing one or your countries new one). This will most likely be an overseas lab. It will likely require retesting a few times until you get it right. Testing is expensive and time consuming so all the time and money you invest in the start will be worth it.