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Associate

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 36

Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 3:00 AM

Hi gentlemen,

To purchase some materials, customer requirement should be carefully reviewed. However, what kinds of material typically shall be required for PMI(Positive Material Identification)?

Likewise, are there someone who can describe PMI to me? Also, why shall PMI be required for some materials? and it is my understanding many vendors do not want to carry out PMI for their own materials, why? probably, they do not wnat to guarantee the quality of their own materials?

I am looking forward to good answers . thank you all

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Participant

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4
#1

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 3:50 AM

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Anonymous Poster #1
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 5:41 AM

Can the flow meter do PMI? If it can then we may consider.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#2

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 3:55 AM

The positive material identification requirements are totally application dependent.

It is rarely used for carbon steel (I have never come across).

It is used on alloy steel - where the component is stressed to nearby limits, the material is special (to avoid any spurious intended or unintended mix-ups) or special properties are required (eg for us the creep resistant steels, turbine blades etc it is mandatory).

The added reason of doing a PMI is the gap between manufacturing and usage. The Test Certificates (MTR - material test reports) are generated at the mill stage, some of them might have been done even at billet stages. From there to finished product it may undergo several processes change hands, in most of the stages the earlier identification mark may go off and new mark punched in. There is a probability of error /miss in these operations and the user is not always sure what he is buying is what he is paying for.

Just to have a secondary conformation the PMI check is done.

The procedure of PMI is simple and there is no reason why anyone should object. It is done with handheld or at least portable spectrum analyser. It is nondestructive. In fact it is even done on finished blades.

The PMI is usually done by the purchaser for obvious reasons.

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Participant

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2
#4

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 9:27 AM

PMI is a form of x-ray diffraction (XRD) called x-ray florsence (XRF). The new portable units are very accurate (wasn't always so) and are used when a materials chemical composition is either called into question or you may not have a MTR or CMTR. Most elements can be verified by XRF but some cannot be detected due to a small angle of relection, for example carbon. So the PMI cannot be used to certify your material but can only be used to give reasonable assurance. Without an MTR you cannot garauntee the mechanical properties of your materiels if you cannot detect all the critical elements; such as carbon for steel and stainless steels. So if you are trying to qualify this material for an application that has strength and tensile requirements and this is not a final product form (ie not a finished tank that you cannot take a material sample from) you could run mechanical testing on this material and perform an PMI test and be able to give a reasonable assurance you know what the material is.

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
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#5

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/11/2011 9:28 AM

Looks like this only works on metals. Manufacturer material certification isn't good enough? It costs money to teat and certify materials.

Positive material identification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 507
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#6

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/12/2011 8:30 AM

XRF PMI cannot detect C. Likewise i havent found any maker to detect, with any accuracy, any element below Ti on the periodic chart. However ,we have saved many millions of $ after installing a XRF PMI program.

Ron

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Participant

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Positive Material Identification

05/15/2011 10:48 PM

OES optical emission spectroscopy will detect carbon and it comes in portable units. This is Nuke-Engineer responding from my phone. An MTR should be acceptable and you use PMI to back up the MTR. The PMI's made now are very acurate and reliable and the learning curve is short for the tech using it.

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