Combining a Diesel Generator with a Solar System

Most solar systems use hydrogen fusion generators, which results in many elemental by-products. The heavy metals formed by the reactions can be deadly so a catch basin should be designed.

The Pacific Basic should be large enough for most solar systems, but you may need to look for something on the order of a Titan, which is mostly all basin according to scientific reports.

The only problem with this type of system is the end-of-life disposal. The generators of some systems can grow to such extremes they tend to envelop the surrounding inhabited areas, which is unhealthy. Others expand very rapidly with X-Ray and Gamma bursts which is definitely unhealthy for the local group.

Hi Ron,

The hybrid system generally refers to a battery cased solar system that also is connected to the electric grid.

Forums I participate in (some of the guys know the business quite well) are -

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

Solar PV and generators are very often used together - when the sun doesn't shine and the batteries require charging the generator is used.

Let the batteries sit in a discharged (or partially discharged) state and they are quickly damaged by sulfate forming on the plate surfaces - a non reversible reaction.

Ohhhh...my bad. That's not where I thought that was going.

The question did seem awfully broad in scope.

In 1960s British Company Hawker Siddley developed a hybrid system consisting of solar/wind/diesel.

Hi Russ123,

Thank you, I've read some of the old forums on Solar PVs and now have a fear knowledge of the types of Solar PVs available. Those were two interesting sites you gave, thank you once again.

Hi Ron - You are quite welcome - between the two sites you can learn most anything you want to know about solar - some of the guys (not all) are very good on the topic and systems such as you have in mind.

Hi Ron

this is a good answer.. you got batteries, you got an inverter..you got a gen set... the only possible problem I see is that the inverter maybe to small, or you have not anticipated the load.. and if i know small rural areas, once you got electricity.. you got lots of people wanting it!!

Thinking about the set up you want or got.. you are going to get lots of ideas going off at a tangent.. Stick with what you want and what works for you!!

Not selling a product, but I install Outback Power Systems because the inverters are stackable (parallel/series) up to 16 units @ 3.5kVA each. They are designed to create micro-grids, e.g. for small communities and such.

Hi Brich,

Yes, I have not looked at the loading requirement yet, and your right, in rural areas, once there's electricity, lots of people will be wanting it.

There's a great need for electricity in rural Papua New Guinea, and Solar Systems have been a good business, as with small generators. However, the rural demand has increased from a single house system to connecting a number of houses. Based on that demand, the stand alone solar system can not maintain supply and requires the need for the Hybrid Power System (HPS).

Papua New Guinea (PNG) gets more than 6 hours of sun per day, and in some costals areas, there's very good wind pressure for wind generators. The HPS technology has yet to be developed in PNG, especially in the rural and urbam areas of PNG.

Hi Lightasmass,

Thank you for your description of the PV-Diesel Generator Hybrid Power System (HPS). After reading your reply as with others, I found and read some general information which described the HPS System as per your reply.

Sometimes it is called as hybrid system. You need to include proper control system including change over switch for smooth operation of these type if systems. In normal time power is generated using solar and when it is not available change over switch will shift the operation to D.G set.

Hi mrswany,

Thank you for your reply, it has assisted to learn that a Diesel Generator in a PV-Diesel Generator System-HPS System, can be used in to modes;

1. Back Up Mode.

2. Parallel Mode.

My question now is; What is the reliable effectiveness of the control requirements and system protection between these energy sources? As the location will be in a remote area, considering geograhical distance to access the site for maintenance.

Back up mode or standby mode is preferred along with god control systems. During day time power is generated using solar energy and in the absence of solar energy DG set to start automatically to generate power continuously. Design of control panel is very important as it is remote area.

There are a number of things you need to consider:

1) Peak Load

2) Average Load

3) Hours of service

4) Available real estate.

5) Technical ability of the users

From there you can determine the number of panels and batteries. The inverters will be providing all of the power. The generator / solar panels only serve to charge the batteries. The generator should be sized so that when it is charging the batteries it is loaded to 95% or so.

This will allow you to add inverter/batteries/ and generators as the system needs to expand.

I think you will find the solar option will be a complete waste of money. The installation, and maintenance, (keeping the weeds away), will negate any benefits, unless you have a good 6 hrs of direct sunlight a day. Wind may be a better option, but again that means you will have to purchase and maintain a separate charging system.

If I were doing this, I would start with a generator, build the infrastructure. Freezers only need to be run an hour or so a day. Use rationing, each unit gets maybe 3 hrs of hi energy a day, the evenings only lighting is used. As you determine the usage, you add the batteries and inverters and if you want the solar/wind supplements.

As others have stated, once you get electricity the problem becomes keeping up with demand.

I have to disagree with much of your post.

1) There was no mention of sizing the system

2) Good practice uses DC to the extent possible to save the losses encountered in charging etc

3) Generators should be sized so they run at least 50% loaded at all times - If you use the generator for bulk charging it one thing - If for topping up the batteries it is another

4) Your opinion on solar is right for most of the developed world - Ron is talking about a remote application

5) Very few places have good enough wind to bother with. 99% of the small wind turbines sold are yard art and nothing more.

I thought average and peak load would cover sizing. I've always sized the diesel for 85 to 95 % of load. While DC does have it's benefits, DC refrigerators are difficult to come by and are quite expensive. Even the Peltier types are probably out of the question. Most new electronic products run on 90 to 240 VAC 50 to 60 HZ. Again DC is an option, but expensive.

As Ron doesn't know the capacity needed, I suggested to start with a basic diesel generator, build the infrastructure and go from there. Let's face it, even the houses are going to need to be wired.

My suggestions, as are yours, are based on a very limited knowledge of the requirements. It will get him moving in the right direction, with a minimum of fuss. After it is up and running and he is comfortable with the system, he will be able to articulate his direction. My ideas will get him started with lowest downside and ease of maintenance.

Of course if Ron sends me ticket(s), I will be more than willing to fly out and design a first rate system. I'll even show them what Puerto Rican rice and beans are like.

Oh, Ron your English is excellent.

Regards,

Jim W

Reading your comments while they might apply to many an application methinks you've never been to Papua New Guinea, where there is way over 6 hours of sunlight each and every day AND as its a somewhat mountainous terrain.. wind would not be an issue either, as PNG is only just North of FNQ Australia.

Lighthasmass (post7) got it right, as the load increase, as it will, you add inverters, and yes i know there is a limit.. but you JWthetech, must be aware of the topography of the "rural area" in PNG, which will give the system its limits.. correction.. limit the demand on the system, period!

You're right, never been to New Guinea. Don't think Ron mentioned which side of the mountain his village was on. Ron never mentioned how much sunlight he gets.

As for me, I live on the edge of a rain forest. While we have sunny days, it has been raining for the past 12 days. I seriously doubt if we've had 6 hrs of sunlight in the past 4 days. Haven't had phone service for 5 days and I had to go back to the wireless modem for internet. I think PNG is similar in that it too has a rainy season.

According to Wiki PNG has many villages of about a 100 or so people. Ron did not mention if this village is typical, in fact he mentioned nothing of the sort.

As I posted, they are going to need a generator and the only contention seems as to when they are going to buy it. I say, buy it first, build the infrastructure and go from there.

I can't say if they have the same social issues as the Caribbean, but solar isn't popular here. Anyone guess why?

They can buy 10 Kw generator for less than 5,000 USD. Wiring the village will be X.

How much will 20 KW of batteries cost? How much will the solar panels cost? Then the inverters. Lastly, who is going to maintain it. Several KW of solar panels are a fair amount of connections that are going to go bad in that environment. Not to mention the care and feeding of the batteries.

Ron asked for info, while you are complaining of my suggestions, I see none from you.

I've done two, and read of several others, any idea why solar panels were used? Two reasons; the first, to get the tax subsidies to defray the cost of the system. The other is, if you mention "renewable, sustainable, what have you" in your impact statement or building application it ensures approval of your application.

Hi JWthetech/Russ123/Brich/Lightasmass;

Thank you for your comments and replies on the system sizing, and the use of Solar PVs and Generators. I have not considered the subject of sizing yet but will be as it is part of the task required for any electrical system's establishment.

The area I'm looking at is located on the cost of Bougainville Island, Papua New Guinea. The system is to supply a small run down Air Strip to be re-developed, and a village of approximately 60 people. A feasibility study of the rural area will be undertaken in the near future, and working towards preparation of the job, I was gathering information for the best recommended energy generation to supply the area. People from the area have requested for a Solar PV System, to which I was looking into supporting the Solar PV System with a Diesel Generator.

Another question I have is about the operating control and protection of the system; what is the reliability of the controls and protection systems of the Solar PV-Diesel Generator System?

The location will be in a remote area, considering geographical distance, access is by road (has eroded a bit), by which maintenance checks, may have to be done by a trained personal in the area.

With the right inverter the system controls are integrated in the unit. But that depends on the overall design of the system. As long as all the equipment has adequate breakers there should be no problems along those lines. The components needing regular maintenance will be the generator and batteries.

As an aside, have you looked into micro or small hydro? I don't know the particulars of your area, but it does not take a whole lot of water and head to produce a good amount of electricity.

A good micro hydro calculator

http://www.alternate-energy.net/micro_hydro_calc.html

You will need energy storage facility like re-chargable batteries along with Inverter.

From PV Watts 1 - for Darwin as no sites were listed for PNG - for a 1 kW DC system

"Station Identification"
"City:","Darwin"
"State:","AUS"
"Lat (deg N):", -12.40
"Long (deg W):", 130.87
"Elev (m): ", 30
"Weather Data:","IWEC"

"PV System Specifications"
"DC Rating:"," 1.0 kW"
"DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.770"
"AC Rating:"," 0.8 kW"
"Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
"Array Tilt:"," 12.4"
"Array Azimuth:"," 0.0"


"Results"
"Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)",
1, 5.22, 109,
2, 5.26, 100,
3, 5.70, 120,
4, 5.56, 113,
5, 6.12, 129,

6, 5.72, 119,

7, 5.96, 128,

8, 6.56, 141,

9, 6.79, 139,
10, 6.74, 142,
11, 6.14, 125,
12, 5.12, 109,

"Year", 5.91 annual average insolation 1475 kWh AC

Russ123;

Great stuff, thank you for the data.

Wind is very site specific - you almost have to put up an anemometer and collect reading for a year to have an idea of what the yield will be.

The small turbines sold cheaply are generally junk - lots of them out there. Good ones that will last are considerably more expensive.

Wind turbines are not something that can be put up and forgot about - they do require attention and maintenance.