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86 Generator Differential?

05/16/2011 10:54 AM

So in the middle of the night we had a 86GD trip. On the circuit is a a 64GS (stator ground), a 87G (generator differential) and manual CO2 discharge switch. Also there is an indicating circuit that monitors the 86GD trip coil. When the 86 tripped there were no targets on the 64 or the 87. The CO2 manual discharge switch was in the normal position and the guard was down. The coil monitoring circuit light bulb was burned out and blackened. I retested the 87 and 64 and they were 100% and displayed normal targets when tripped. The only thing left in the circuit was the light bulb. What are the chances the bulb could pull enough current when it burned out to energize the coil and trip the 86? The circuit voltage is 125VDC.

If it did cause the problem, the bulb will go down as one of the most expensive light bulbs in history.

TIA.

Chuck

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#1

Re: 86 Generator Differential?

05/16/2011 2:30 PM

Lockout relays are low resistance coils to ensure rapid operation. The major resistance in the circuit is usually the monitor lamp and socket. Many instrument lights (for example, General Electric ET16) use the same socket with different series resistors to allow them to work on 24, 48, 125 or 250 volt circuits. If the resistor shorted out or someone installed the wrong resistor, it's possible that the 86 could trip before the bulb failed and opened the circuit.

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#2

Re: 86 Generator Differential?

05/16/2011 6:03 PM

I agree with Pwrtothepeople. 86 relays are very fast, even at a fraction of rated voltage. Seven milliseconds is possible. If it is possible, I would replace the lamp with a separate over-rated resistor(s) to draw the same current and an LED lamp (with parallel inverse diode). The metal clad MIL spec 10 watt resistors are good.

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#3

Re: 86 Generator Differential?

05/17/2011 9:56 AM

The bulb was a 120PSB and the socket is a GE104PXG42, no resistor.

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In reply to #3

Re: 86 Generator Differential?

05/17/2011 10:52 AM

Chemman, I see 2 possibilities here. First, the 120PSB bulb has a filament resistance of 4800Ω, which is why is doesn't need a resistor. If the filament broke and reconnected in a shorter length (which happens occasionally in incandescent bulbs), the filament resistance would be greatly reduced. Since that bulb is the only resistance in the circuit, the resultant current could be enough to trip the 86.

The other possibility is the bulb & socket contacts of . Your bulb has a telephone slide base. The bulb must be inserted into the socket in a specific orientation for contact, but it's relatively easy to get the lamp misaligned to the point where it will still light, but there is a relatively small clearance between the bulb contact on one side and the socket contact on the other side. Dust or humidity could then bridge enough to allow current flow in a 125V circuit. If you look at the bulb contacts you may find indication of overheating.

Personally I think bulb misalignment is the more likely answer. I have replaced many of these sockets over the years due to the bulb contacts shorting out the socket and damaging it. For a critical circuit such as this, I recommend either bayonet or screw-type sockets which maintain positive separation of the contacts.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: 86 Generator Differential?

05/17/2011 6:21 PM

If it is possible to change lamp socket I suggest 24V MES E10 green LED lamp which draws 15 mA with two ARCOL HS10 resistors in series 1 of 2200 ohm, one of 4700 ohm total 6900 ohm. I put two of these on a generator breaker position open/close application 20 years ago. Still working with same lamps....

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