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HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/02/2011 11:28 AM

I recently purchased a 2 family house in the Albany, NY area that I am in the process of gutting and rehabbing.

The old heating was a combination of the old large space heaters in the living room that vented through the chimney and electric baseboards so there is no duct work or piping in the house.

Trying to decide on the type of system to install... forced hot air, gas radiators, go with electric or other?

My friend who is helping me went with all electric baseboards for his because they were cheaper to install, didn't have to worry about ductwork and eliminated the need to install any gas lines in the house... but I know these aren't as efficient and have a negative stigma to them.

Since the house is a rental we would like to go with something pretty cheap but not so cheap to turn potential tenants off.

I've also heard about combo furnaces/hot water boilers but some people say the water doesn't get as hot with those.

Any suggestions??? thanks!

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#1

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/02/2011 2:00 PM

Not much help, but if it was me, regardless of who's going to paying the heating bills, you or the renters, I would install whichever units are the most economical to run. Installation costs would be secondary.

So, I think the first step would be to make that determination, based on different fuel costs, i.e. fuel oil, electric, natural gas, propane. Followed by efficiency ratings of varying units for each type of fuel....................and, as a future landlord, I would continue by looking at maintenance requirements, break down and repair records for various models for each fuel.

From there you should be able to break it down to maybe 3 choices.........if that. For me, I would not be so worried about the initial cost, but which system is going to be the cheapest to run, and which system is going to give me the fewest problems in the future.

A system that isn't going to break, and pays you back in the form of lower bills is going to be the one to go with.

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#7
In reply to #1

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 10:12 AM

But this is only true to a point. It is easy to be seduced into buying a much more expensive system by the siren song of efficiency. I would recommend looking at the total lifecycle cost given the installation costs, maintenance costs, and operating costs over the expected lifetime of the equipment (or your expected ownership period).

A geothermal heating and cooling system is very effecient, but I won't live long enough to realize the payback versus other systems.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 3:11 PM

Propane is getting too expensive, I have that 3.95 per gallon in north cali. Fuel Oil basically Diesel #2 have the Excursion with the 7.3 Diesel and that is getting way too expensive 5.45 per gallon here in north cali. Natural gas per therm is still the best, 1.57 - gallon for reference, or heat pump electric is at .11 cents per KW.

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#2

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/02/2011 3:50 PM

Consider other factors when making your choice. What good would a high-efficiency heating system be, regardless of type, if it's all leaking out your windows and doors? What about insulation? Other measures?

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#3

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 12:32 AM

With the rising costs of electricity and the colder winters, I would recommend not installing electric baseboard heating. As mentioned in another reply, I would also recommend proper insulation and at least double pane thermal windows, triple pane even better.

If there is basement and attic spaces, adding forced air system is not a great problem and allows you the option to add central air at a later time, as it increases resale value and also can provide greater rental rates.

Additionally, I would suggest a tankless hot water system over a tank type. Also, if you decide to go with hot water heating, the tankless hot water system can be set up to handle this application as well as domestic hot water. I have installed many of these systems and have had great customer satisfaction with them.

Regardless of your selection, you should look at operational costs, maintenance costs not initial costs. Most of the better items on the market have a greater initial capital outlay but over the longer time, they usually end up costing less when you factor in service repairs and operating costs such as electricity and natural gas consumption over a 5-10 year term.

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#4

Re: HVAC Recommendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 1:46 AM

Try looking here www.daikin.com. They have a great line on multi zone wall and ceiling mount Heat Pump systems that will not require duct work. The units come with supplemental heat for the really cold winters.

One condenser can accommodate 10 zones.

Best of luck to you.

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#5

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 9:23 AM

What type of fuels are available to you in your area?

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#6

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 9:36 AM

Thanks for everyone's replies.

Fuel types available are Natural Gas, Oil and Electric.

My one friend who recommended to go with electric said his vision is to get a couple solar panels to supplement the regular electric. I'm not sure how cost effective they are right now though but tenants could see it as a plus even if it only adds a small amount of electricity.

The walls and ceilings are all open right now so it would make installing the ducts easier. (Not sure if that means it would be any cheaper on my end) We will be replacing most of the windows and adding new insulation in the walls as well.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 10:17 AM

Single pane windows are about R-1. Dual pane are around R-3. The smaller the window the better from a heat loss stand point of a total wall system. I wouldn't just replace them without stopping to consider this. You might have oversized windows that are a highway for heat entering and leaving your space. Since you're replacing them anyways this might be a prime time to consider framing a few for smaller windows.

Scratch the solar idea, the inverter alone doesn't fit your theme of "cheap".

I'm assuming you're going to use fiberglass insulation in the walls. Don't fool yourself into thinking that if you stuff "more" into the cavity you'll get more effect. That type of insulation (that sucks) needs to be completely non-compressed and around 70 degrees to deliver it's rated R value.

Electricity costs will rise. Take a look around and you'll see the US is hoarding natural gas left and right. Fracking is going on in areas that have been long thought of as dead as far as producing energy. Stick with gas, you'll be happy you did down the road.

I'd avoid hot water systems (like underfloor). Warm air heating is close to maintenance free and lasts 30 years or more.

Don't be so "cheap", be an investor in your property. One day you'll want to cash in and get your ROI. If the next person see's cheap cheap cheap windows, heating system, unused solar panels that have been disconnected, etc do you think you'll get a premium for your property?

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#10

Re: HVAC Recomendations for 2 Family Rental

06/03/2011 5:05 PM

This isn't the right project for a DIY. Unless it's located in the boonies you are going to have a building department to deal with which means getting a licensed contractor.

Do your research and find one with a solid reputation who can propose workable options to fit your budget otherwise you'll be spending more time at the rental than at home trying to satisfy justifiably upset tenants. Also you could be taking on some liability you won't enjoy if things go wrong. Tread carefully and good luck.

Lou Bindner

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