Urgent Help 480v 60Hz Machine Needs To Be Run On 415v 50Hz

Just curious, did you not know that North American equipment is almost always 60 hertz?

I think someone need to Analise the machine carefully for hours before reaching on any conclusion, as there may be various systems inside, some may be effected by voltage change, some may be with frequency, and some may be with both, there may be some area that may work fine with new power, very first thing needed is identify all segment of machine and then find the solution accordingly, Best choice is contact the manufacturer first,

You might want to start here http://www.hzfrequencyconverter.com/60Hzto50Hz.html

If all of the motors run off of servos, frequency is most likely irrelevant; the servo drives (amplifiers) will convert to DC anyway. But you will need to know the voltage of the servo motors. Servo drives do not necessarily always put out the maximum available voltage, they have the ability to turn it down. Hopefully in your situation that is the case because one thing they can't do is INCREASE the voltage beyond what is available. So for example if you have servos that need no more than 300VDC, all you have to worry about is if the servo drive is going to auto-sense that or if you have to reprogram it to know that the line voltage is lower than expected. Most will not know or care. If however your servo motors need more than 585VDC, the maximum DC available from a 415V supply, then you are sunk.

Next, as was suggested earlier, you have to understand every other device in the system and what it needs. The PC for example: nobody makes a PC with a 480V power supply, so they are either transforming it to 120V (common) or 240V (uncommon in N. America), or using an industrial PC that takes a 24VDC input, and they have a 24VDC power supply that is most likely using a 480V input. If the latter, most 24VDC power supplies are capable of a wide input voltage and 415V is going to be fine, and again, they couldn't care less about frequency. If it is set up for 240VAC input, most AC power supplies on PCs are 50/60Hz rated, so your Line to Neutral voltage on a 415V system is 240V, no problem. But if the PC has a 120VAC power supply input, and it can't be switched to 240V, you are going to have to find a 415-120V transformer for it. S as you can see, it's complicated and everything here is conjecture, we have no way of knowing from afar; it could have been done in any of those ways and more.

So your best course of action is to take it to a qualified panel shop and have them go over it with a fine toothed comb BEFORE you ever apply power to it, to do otherwise is to risk significant damage.

It's one of those expenses people rarely think of when considering moving machinery across the pond or buying locally. I used to have a panel shop and did this quite often. The accountants were always shocked at the added expense and would almost always conclude it would have been cheaper to buy new equipment made for the local environment.

You need to procure and install 415V, 50 Hz to 480 V, 60 Hz Frequency Converter of suitable power rating. Good Luck.

Is your control system electronic, as you mention a built in PC? I think maybe it requires a DC voltage, check if that is the case. If so then change the transformer and maybe the rectifier, to work on 415 volts, giving the required secondary voltage.

As for the motors/drives, depending on the number and the cost, I would change them out for 415v 50Hz operation.

If you have moved this machine to the UK from Canada then I guess its not going back, so you would require it to work for the next 5 to 10 years trouble free.

Maybe in the short term and depending HOW fast you need this machine up and running then a frequency converter is the short term answer as suggested.

Looking at the Lenze web site and a subsidiary that sell servo motors for UK application, here is the link

http://www.techdrives.co.uk/html/servo_geared_motors_1_9_-_226n.html

Here their address

Techdrives

Lenze Ltd

Caxton Rd

Bedford

MK41 0HT

Tel: 01234 753201

Fax: 01234 753220

and for Lenze UK

http://www.lenze.co.uk/lenze.uk_en_active/UK_lenze.uk.jsp

As well as voltage, there are also possibly very important UK legislation issues. It is unlikely that a machine designed to work in Canada is actually CE marked to be compliant with the Machinery Directive, the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive.

If it is then you are lucky but bear in mind it is the "importer" into "europe" that takes the legal responsibility that all is correct if it is CE marked by a company that is not resident in europe.

I would strongly suggest contacting a "notified" body such as Laidler Associates (nothing to do with me by the way!) to make sure you are not breaking UK Legislation. There are other such organisations so you could do a search and compare costs easily. This is just as relevant if the equipment is for your own use rather than re-sale, ie. it makes no difference.

Its a complicated area so a simple posting like this doesn't do the issue justice but it does bring it to your attention.

Regards and good luck

Good thoughts.. but the "CE" marks are to prove that the machine is built by the "MANUFACTURER" complies with the current EU regulations, but many of these "marks" are from companies who "self certify".

Equipment purchased and previously operated overseas, then imported by the purchaser, it is not required to have such marks as it is, installed/relocated, operated and maintained by the owner.

However... and this is where I am agreeing 100% with you... under the "Electricity Act" ALL machinery has to comply with regards to protection (mechanical & electrical) of operator and other equipment/buildings, isolation - using compliant means of local and main isolation, AND be installed and tested to BS7576.. AND have been inspected by Lloyds Underwriters to pass conformity regulations for insurance purposes.

Many years ago I commissioned electrical panels from USA, (an American company upgrading an old manufacturing plant and importing tried and tested US equipment to the UK) and it took a team 4 weeks to make them compliant. There was no "CE" mark, but after first inspection it was decided that major up-grades were required to make the panels conform to BS7576.. for example.. open the top cabinet door of these imported panels and you could touch the bus bars. Answer: 1mm thick plex-glass shaped and fitted to prevent touching of the 415volts bus bars. Yes, Lloyds came to inspect it all, before we could switch it on!

I never thought of mentioning compliance as I assumed that the OP had taken this into consideration. GA from me!

Sorry Brich

I can't agree with you, equipment brought into Europe and put into use has to comply with the Directives and this means the application of a CE mark as well. Even if it has previously been used outside Europe by the same international owners, they still have to undertake this exercise. In this case the importer is effectively classed as the "manufacturer"!

Note Machine do not necessarily have to meet BS 7671 but they will be expected to meet EN 60204-1 (or other part if relevant eg -32), BS 7671 could be applicable but note the exclusion in 110.2 of the standard.

Don't understand what you are saying about Lloyds, they can obviously be employed to provide 3rd party support but not necessarily required.

Regards

Yes it has to comply with the UK directives as they supersede the EU ones, as for the "CE" mark..anyone can put a sticker on under "self certification".

As for Lloyds, I would have thought that it was obvious, as they "underwrite" the majority of industrial insurance policies, they DEMAND to inspect for the purposes of insurance.

Whatever we agree or disagree on as a side issue.. as I said, on the issue of compliance to regulations you are correct.

We are obviously fundamentally agreeing.

Yes CE marks can be put on by anyone, but there little to stop anyone issuing a BS 7671 completion cert as well, only those that are NICEIC (or similar) get semi-regular checked. The UK and others all work on this principle.

We have never had Lloyds ask to check our industrial site (multiple machines) or our machines and I don't know anyone around here (South Yorks) including the large steel works that have had such a request, so hence my query

depending on the situation.. and the amount of money involved etc Lloyds will do what they want when they want, and if they pick up non-compliance then there is no insurance.

I've been on several hig price commissioning jobs, and they've turned up, the example I quoted, on the New Severn Bridge, and on numerous ships I've worked on.

Apart from all the compliance requirements mentioned in the posts above the following site may give you some assistance regarding the actual technical aspects of operating your plant on a lower voltage and frequency:-

http://www.lmphotonics.com/index.php

Apart from the effect the lower voltage/frequency would have on the operation of the motors the advice given above to fully check the control circuits voltages is very important. I would presume you have full wiring drawings available to assist you.

Good Luck!

This is something that I haven't seen stated, so I thought I would add it. A number of years ago I moved to France and grabbed from my lab a 60Hz stepdown transformer to drop 240V to 120V. This was not a light weight beast (listed as being capable of >15 amps) and the load was quite light for occasional use for a few things that don't like the cheap converters due to the spikes they put on the power. While plugged in, with either no load, or very light load (less than a few hundred watts), after a few hours the transformer overheated, melting the insulating varnish on the coils and shorting out spectacularly (It had a nice puddle of varnish at the bottom afterwards). I puzzled over this for some time and once I checked I found that the drop from 60Hz to 50Hz dropped the impedance of the coils enough to cause the overheating. This I am expect meant that the transformer was designed on the edge, but it had been running with 60 Hz for a long time with no problem. This problem may be related to very few transformers, but impedance does change with frequency for a coil, so it was the only explanation I could come up with. If nothing else, the power consumption of a transformer at 50Hz is going to be more than at 60Hz.