Improving Drainage to Weeping Tile

You MUST make a trench or "swale" to get water away from your house. The situation I see in the picture is unacceptable and must be dealt with or you will get serious damage when the water freezes and blows your basement walls in! (yes, it happened to me!)

If this were MY house, I would dig a ditch well away from the house to drain it off to the road or some place safe, and perhaps fill it with half inch clear crushed rock to keep it from being a safety hazard. (there are ways to put a sidewalk on top of that...but is beside the point...but it would certainly be a well drained sidewalk!! Brick as shown would be best because it could be leveled easily as required in the future.) (option one is always to get any water away from the foundation.) The fact that you have already in effect done just that, and you STILL get standing water like this means you may well have to go to the slightly more expensive option 2.

Option 2....

The other option is the one I used, and that was to dig beside the foundation clear down to the weeping tiles, and back fill with 3/8 or half inch clear crushed stone. Crushed stone is a better option than the usual "bank run sand" because in Canada, the sand often gets saturated and freezes, which negates its drainage ability.

Option 1 is a little less expensive and it might be better if you can do it...your statement that you had to install an extra sump pump to handle heavy rains might mean your weeping tiles are already doing their job just fine IF you can keep the water from flowing in and standing like that. So its not the amount of water which is the real problem, but rather the ice which can form and the standing water which can damage your house.

There are yet other options...most involve dimpled plastic and water proofing, and as long as your basement wall is exposed clear down to the footings, you would do well to have these installed. Its your foundation after all...everything rests on that!

Water would never accumulate like that if you had crushed stone laid along side the foundation right down to the weeping tiles.

Thanks, Yusef1.

The picture is before the new sidewalks, my neighbor's and my own, were built. I only included it to show the problem I'm trying to alleviate.

My new sidewalk is regular sidewalk block laid on top of a pressure treated wooden "rail" system on 24" long spikes every 3 feet. No problem with keeping it level.

The trench, or swale, is there between the homes. This past spring was a slow melt and no there was rain this summer. I just don't know if I'll get the accumulation as shown in the picture, but I don't want to find out.

Digging the entire foundation is best, I agree. We are in a budgetary constraint mode right now and want a cheap, yet effective, solution.

Well, there is something to be said for getting a few of the neighbourhood kids in with shovels during the summer. Gives them good work experience, help them to get some gas for their car, that sort of thing. Does not HAVE to cost a fortune and if it does, well, it may well be money well spent.

Tried that. I've never seen kids run so fast. Extra bribes didn't help: cash, dips in the pool, food..nothing worked. Hence, my attempt to go at it myself.

If I understand you correctly I think you're making a big mistake. If you're planning on essentially using the weeping tile as a drain line I'd ditch that plan. They aren't intended to take several inches of water per hour, more like a "weeping" amount at any time. The whole idea you should stay focused on is keeping the water AWAY from the foundation in the first place.

You should carefully look at your entire property and decide the best place to run some drain lines (including under walkways). 4 or 5 well placed drains could go a long way in keeping the water from the foundation. Of course all drains work in concert with grading properly. Use your grade to direct water away from the foundation and to a collection area. Place a drain in that collection area.

Good luck and good digging

Dammit. I was all fired up, shovel in hand, and now YOU come along and send me back to the drawing board.

I already considered pumps and routing drain lines, but maybe I should review that decision based on your comments. I certainly don't want to introduce any more water than the weeping can tile can handle. Digging little trenches is way easier than digging big holes through clay.

In your experience, what brand and size of submersible pump would move water, possibly significant amounts, nearly 100ft?

Since he now HAS the swale and good surface drainage, his weeping tiles will handle the balance of the water, if any. What he needs now is to keep the soil from saturating within the top four feet. Because that is where the freeze will occur. Not a problem in sunny California I admit, but an overlooked source of trouble up here in the frozen north. Besides, you can slip and fall on that!

If there is weeping tile and it was installed correctly it would be below the slab that is your basement floor.

Kinda looks like this before you back fill.

And backfill before the inspector comes! That concrete doesn't look too good. My apologies if that's your own work.

The weeping tile Ozzb talks about is connected to that.

A house that old might not have drainage tiles and if it does they are probably plugged. You need to keep the water away from the house. You do not want your roof water down at the foundation. A problem I have is that in the spring the ground next to the basement wall thaws first and if there is large thaw of the snow the water soaks down beside the basement wall and in to the basement. Once the rest of the ground thaws I don't have a problem.
There are three ways to fix leaky basements. Keep the water away from the house on the surface, dig up the outside and seal the wall in install new drainage pipe. The third way is to fix it on the inside. They brake up the basement floor and put a drain in next to the wall and a waterproof membrane on the wall so that any water that gets in goes in to the drain. One company that does this is Omni Basement Systems. Check out their web site but it is best to contact a company that does both inside and outside systems to find out what is the best approach.

There are usually by-laws that say that you can not drain water on to your neighbours property. You can call the building inspector but I don't know if you need a building permit to put in a sidewalk.

Thanks, Stan.

Agreed, keeping water away is the desired result of my efforts. My idea to drain to weeping tile is a backup plan in case a significant accumulation overwhelms the measures I've already put into action. No point in digging if there might not be any tile down there, eh?

My basement is not leaky, accumulated water entered the basement through the windows. For a 50+ year old house, the foundation is in fantastic shape, no cracks or leaks anywhere.

If I were to pursue legal action, I think I'd have to go at my neighbor's contractor. The cost of all the work to my property is far less than the legal fees, so I think I'll stick with upgrades to my property.

I agree except try and keep the small amount of rock salt off the concrete and in the drain, since they don't like each other. Also if you have a well make sure this doesn't drain towards it.

bakerjohn, that's a very good suggestion, and I whole-heartedly agree.

It would serve the OP well to seal the exposed top surfaces of the anchoring concrete with an acceptable exterior grade liquid concrete sealing compound to help minimize the concrete degradation...

Also, in lieu of using the poly channels that I mention previously, the OP could install a galvanized steel drainage pipe with integral inlet slots (in the top, or crown, of the pipe) that Contech manufactures. Make sure you order this product with a paved invert (interior bottom surface) and fully asphalt coated inside and out, to help resist corrosion and promote more efficient flow characteristics. At such a shallow installation depth I would highly recommend that it be anchored with concrete all around except at the top slots so as to help resist the soil frost heave during the winter months and the annual winter thawing period in late winter/early spring. Don't forget to buy the asphalt coated connecting collars and joining hardware to effectively join the pipe sections together. They'll also prevent the wet anchoring concrete from flowing into the pipe!

I would recommend using a pipe diameter no less than 12-inches, or else there's a tendency for ice formation and subsequent blockage within the pipe barrel....again, use rock salt here for this installation.

This is actually a pretty nice looking installation, and easy to install too!

http://www.contech-cpi.com/Products/Pipe/Corrugated-Metal-CMP/Slotted-Drain.aspx

There may be some HDPE top-slotted drain pipes out there, but even the smallest pipes tend to have much larger diameters.....ADS makes them, but the smallest pipe diameter is 4 feet! That's a tad too much overkill for such a small drainage area that the OP has described....also, that size is not only uneconomical but way too big is size and scope! LOL

Wow, more products that could work for my application. Thanks!

I'm one of those do-it-right-the-first-time guys. Engineered solutions are looking more and more desireable.

No well to worry about. The problem might be how to introduce the drained water into the street in a not-very-obvious-manner.

Steve, I'm glad to have helped you out.

In regard to introducing the collected water: If the pre-existing (before all of the construction that you and your neighbor have done) stormwater runoff ended up in the street you shouldn't fret about dumping it there after any further construction work as it was an existing condition....the drainage was accepted by the municipality then, so they should have any qualms about it now. After all, you had to take remedial steps to protect your property after your neighbor had work completed that severely impinged upon your dwelling and the overall property.

I think the only problem you may face would be a direct tie-in of any drainage pipe, etc to the municipality's existing Storm drainage system in the street, as that will most likely require a permit to physically connect to an existing storm sewer catch basin of drainage manhole, a permit to excavate and replace the pavement, and a permit for a "curb cut". I would go visit the City Engineer's Office (if one exists) and chew the fat with him/her, as well as determine what your options are for such a stormwater discharge. You may luck out and find that the municipality's DPW workforce may actually do the work for you in regard to a direct tie-in. I doubt it would be for free though, as most municipalities usually charge a fee for such work. Also, most DPW do not like anyone, and that includes contractors) to touch their infrastructure for fear of potential damage or unacceptable construction work. Having once been a City Engineer I wouldn't want a city resident or his contractor getting even close to my city-owned utilities and street pavement, let alone taking a backhoe and digging within the ROW! They'd only would be permitted to do such work if they were registered and licensed with the city/town....also they would have to be Bonded and Insured and a good track record with the municipality.

Another problem is discharging collected runoff from a newly constructed drainage swale, channel or pipe onto a city or town sidewalk if one exists within the municipal Right-of-Way (ROW). Doing so could result in icing-over of the sidewalk surface or washing out of the soil at the end of the new drainage system; the discharge onto the sidewalk could potentially pose a slipping hazard to users during the Winter months. Just something to chew on and think about....the legalities of one's actions and reactions.

Great advice, CaptMoosie. Thanks! I'll be sure to do my homework before proceeding further.

Thanks, CaptMoosie. I don't think I'll be doing any serious digging, based on your comments as well as those by Stan.

The hexadrain product looks interesting. I'm going to investigate it further.

In Montreal, it is against bylaws to drain one's property onto the neighbors. His driveway should drain to the street or onto his own backyard or he must install proper drainage.

If you cannot convince him to do that, poor a small concrete wall between the properties so that his water stay on his yard.

Send him a registered letter first asking for corrections. If he doesn't respond, conduct the repairs and give give him the bill. The registered letter is needed to go to court later on.

The same bylaws exist here. The work I've done, reconfiguring my downspout and rebuilding my sidewalk, was work I wanted to do anyway, before I had this drainage problem. While pursuing legal action is often the first action considered, absolutely nothing good will come out of this situation by doing that.

You clearly aren't American! You sue to get rich at EVERY opportunity here. Hmm, I wonder if that might be part of the problem?

Some of the lawsuits I've read about in your country are mindblowing. The frivolous and stupid ones, sure, toss them out. But your system does work to protect those that need protecting.

In my case, I have neighbors that I've never had any problems with before. They're nice people that I might need in the future and I have a good reputation in my neighborhood. I know those neighbors would never purposely cause any damage to my property and for that reason I'm going to continue paying for my upgrades. I do make sure, however, that they know I'm doing the work because of their sidewalk.

Update:

First of all, thanks again to all who contributed their advice on my situation. My final solution was two-fold. Minor upgrades to the existing swale [landscaping], in combination with a reconfiguration of my downspout seems to be working. We had a full day of steady rain on Tuesday and there was no water accumulation next to my foundation.

I intend to keep a watchful eye. The spring melt will be the real test.

Thanks again!

Good luck Steve with the drainage problems!

Thanks for stopping by and chatting (sort of) with us....