Water hammer pressure and a new hydropower system

Take mine:

[email redacted]

I'd be glad to examine it.

Take mine please: [redacted] Thanks

They have used a method with a water hammer to raise water to a height into a storage tank. The storage tank can then be let flow through a pelton turbine for power. One wonders why they do not simply use the main flow. Possibly they use a low head to make a far higher head via the hammer, thus reducing the storage volume needed.

Hola Aurizon. (One wonders why they do not simply use the main flow.). If you are leaving in a pour country and do not have electricity you can use a water hammer pump to raise a little fraction of water above certain level. The point is that you use the energy of the little water stream to pump a certain amount of water to a higher level (the higher the elevation the less amount of water). You simple left the pump inside the main water stream and it will start pumping up little quantities of water. You may use your cammel or your horse to doing other work at the farm etc. These pumps are actually a steel reservoir with check valves, pipes etc that uses the energy of the little stream water flow to induce a little water hammer inside the steel reservoir and once there is enough pressure build up inside it, the relief valve will release the acumulated pressure allowing some water to be impulsed out of the reservoir up to certain heigh depending on the setting force of the relief valve. Very simple and inexpensive. Regards. Luis

Yes, I know this. What seems to be the desire of this person's system is not clear

A friend of mine did a graduate tesis in this water hammer pump 30 years ago. On the other subject, I get lost in the reading of the paper so I can not judge its teorical validity but in the other hand just building that system would require a lot of money. And a 1200 mt. penstock plus a 500Mw generator with fly wheels seems very very impractical. But we have to respect the ideas posted in the forum. Personally I think this project is not feasible and rather I will enforce direct his effords towards sea tidal o wind generators. Regards. Luis.

Yes, it does not seem to be a valid system to me, but some of the details are not clear.

Dear Mr IIizarraga,

In any new ideas, there will be skeptics. That's natural and expected.

In my email, I requested all recipients to please read carefully in details before commenting. But while still " I get lost in the reading of the paper so I can not judge its teorical validity", then commenting on it will not help.

The model can be reduced in size to 30 cm. in inside diameter and with a lower rated generator. But the length of the pipe in which the propagation of the celerity takes place can not be shortened.

Dear Mr. Guest

I apologize. I get lost my self even that I tried very hard to follow all your ideas. Thats why I have not stated any comment on the validity of the teory behind your project. I respect your ideas and opinions and encourage you to continue that way.

On the other hand I have been working for the Panama Canal for the last 29 years. Specifically I have work all this years in the Electrical Division which manage two hydroelectric power plants and one Thermal Generating station. We have installed and operated several kind of prime movers for generating electricity and have made studies for increasing the output of our hydraulic units itself as well as have studied the feasibility of building or adding new hydro units to our system. We also have deal with an Atomic Generating power plant located on a barge ( It was used for generating electricity for the military at the canal in the earlys 70's).

At this time we are moving from steam and gas turbines to Internal combustion diesel generators and that seems to be the tendency on all the electrical facilities on this side of the world.

Honestly, I think that building your system is very expensive no matter its size. I think that you should do an economic study on your proposed system before you continue at this time.

As I have stated before I'm not skeptic on the validity of your proposal but on the feasibilty or conviense of its construction.

Of course you need advise in order to finish and bring to reality your ideas, and I think, that is the whole idea behind of this forum.

You have to keep looking for to convince the skeptics, but remember that they are your allies too.

Keep the good work. Regards. Luis.

Good Morning . I have worked 25 years at Gatun and Madden Dam Hydro Stations at the Panama Canal Electrical Division, Panama, Panama. My mail is [redacted] and would like to read your paper.

Regards. Luis.

Entropy rules. There is no such thing as 'free'. Using 'water hammer' or any such mechanism simply uses the kinetic energy that has been imparted to the fluid (at some energy cost) and diverting it to somewhere else. Robs Peter to pay Paul. Such 'impulse' pumps have been used to raise water from a fast flowing stream several hundred feet.

A 'pelton turbine' generating power from water so elevated should not be patentable in my opinion since it is simply an alternative use of the water so raised, and the power generation mimics that of a 'pumped storage' system.

Fellow members,Here is a synopsis of the new hydropower:

A MULTIPLE ENERGY INPUTS HYDROPOWER SYSTEM

According to the Principle of Conservation of Energy, it can not be created nor destroyed; but it can be transformed; transferred; accumulated; stored and can either be harnessed for constructive use producing usable energy or be converted into various dissipated forms. Through mediums such as liquid water; air and electro-magnet, various forms of energy are collected and transformed into a distinctive power conversion system. Natural permanent energies such as gravitational force, atmospheric air pressure and other dynamic forces, i.e. water hammered jet force; vacuum suction force; jet recoil force; compressed air pressure and inertia can be harnessed to form substantial inputs of a power conversions system. This to generate electrical energy by means of a Pelton turbine- generator.

The present invention is a new hydropower system. It is powered by eight forms of forces which are mostly natural occurring. A big portion of the whole range of energy inputs are converted into electric energy; with only one kind of input that consumes electric energy- that being the motor pumps. This fractional input of electric based energy is smaller than the SINGLE CONSOLIDATED OUTPUT of electric power generated by the whole conversion system. This system is in a closed loop with a controlled volume of water re-circulating continually within. Periodically, it is re-boosted by a re-boosting pump outside of the energy loop as energy output wanes.

Initially, water from a ground level reservoir with at least three meters of elevation head, is given a primary input- boost in pressure head by a motor pump to push forward in a 1200 meter long main penstock; bypassing pressure relief valve; surge tanks; vacuum suction pipes ; auxiliary pipes ; the periodic re-boosting pipe and ends with a uni-direction spherical valve high up inside the powerhouse. The continuously rotating spherical valve stops the fast water column in a " rapid closure " mode when tc < 2L /Cp ,where tc is the closing time; L is the length of the pipe and Cp is the celerity of the pressure wave; transforming the combined pressure; kinetic and elastic energy accumulated in the entire water column into a water hammer of immense pressure energy. The formula is Ph = Density of liquid x Velocity of water column x Celerity of Pressure wave.^Ref The formula for the Celerity is = ( Ev/dens)^1/2 where Ev is the Modulus of Elasticity of water which is about 2 x10⁹ n/m² at 20˚C and dens is the density of water which is about 1000kg/m³. As the spherical valve re-opens, pressurized water is re-transformed into a high kinetic energy jet that shoots out of the main penstock to impinge on the Pelton turbine generator to produce electric energy. The spent water is received by the tail reservoir. It is then drained by gravitational force through the outflow pipe back to the original main reservoir completing the loop.

This system has a complementary sub-loop of re-circulating water path. When the spherical valve is opened rapidly, huge volume of high compressed water jets out of the main penstock, forming a low pressured vacuum.^Ref The pressure differential would draw in water ( which has 3 meters elevation head plus 10.3 water-meters of atmospheric pressure ) from the main reservoir directly into the main penstock through the vacuum suction pipes, bypassing the main pump and the upstream section of the main penstock. This mechanism of water transferring functions like an electric pump but without consuming any electrical power. This works to stabilize the pressure and to increase significantly the volume of water in the main penstock. An auxiliary pump ( 24 ) sustains the pressure and the volume of water needed. The water jet impinges on the Pelton turbine generator to produce electric energy. Simultaneously as jet is being forced out of the convergence re-coil nozzle( 29 ), an EQUAL and OPPOSITE in direction force is exerted on the recoil nozzle which can do different kinds of work. One embodiment is to move the piston inside a pressure chamber ( 30 ) to push liquid in the pressure pipeline ( 34 ) to add pressure force to the system. The spent water is received by the tail reservoir. It is drained by gravitational force back to the originating main reservoir ( 1 ) completing the complementary sub-loop.

These water flow loops are congruent with the energy flow loops.

The recoil force can also be used to do other methods of work: ( A ) its reciprocating action can drive a linear to continuous rotary motion assembly where the rotating element is coupled to the rotor of a generator to produce electricity; ( B ) another method is to utilize the pressure force to run a desalination tank where salts and dilutes are removed by membrane thru reverse osmosis.

References

Daugherty, Robert, 1989. Fluid Mechanics with Engineering Applications,8 ^th edition,

McGraw-Hill Co. pages 456-461.

Roberson, A John, 1998. Hydraulic Engineering, 2 th edition, pages 550-566.

ASME Hydro Power Technical Committee, 1996.The Guide to Hydropower Mechanical

Design, HCI Publications. Pages 12-1 to 12-18.

Diagram of the Multiple Energy Inputs Hydropower System

Showing an Out of Energy Loop Starting / Re-boosting Power Line

Operating the system:

1. Main Reservoir is filled with water of at least 3 m. elevation head. Synchronize the uni-direction spherical valves ( 5 ; 24 ). Start the starting generator ( 3 ). Turn on the main pump ( 6 ).

2. Accumulate about one minute of pressure flow in the main penstock ( 9 ) to establish a steady state of flow.

3. Start the uni- direction spherical valve ( 5 ). Water hammer is induced.

4. As the spherical valve re-opens, high kinetic energy jet is released from the nozzle. Big volume of water is expelled causing a precipitous drop in pressure energy. The pressure differential between the main penstock ( 9 ) and the main reservoir with at least 3 meters of elevation head plus the atmospheric pressure will open the check valves ( 20 ) of the vacuum suction pipes ( 19 ) rushing in a volume of water.

5. The recoil force on the nozzle pushes the water from the pressure chamber( 30 ) through the pressure pipe ( 34 ) and into the main penstock ( 9 ) to add pressure force and water volume to the main penstock.

6. The atmospheric jet impinges on the Pelton turbine- generator to produce electricity.

7. The auxiliary pump ( 24 ) supports the full volume of water with pressure head of 5 meters required for the next round of water hammer.

8. Part of the electricity produced is switched on to the main pump; auxiliary pump and the spherical valves. The starting generator is then closed.

9. The system is sustained for a certain time period with the natural forces inputs.

10. As the electrical output of the system wanes to an unacceptable level, It is then re-boosted by the starting / re-boosting generator in the form of pressure head input to reach the intended energy level.

The present hydropower system would have the following chart of Energy / Mass equilibrium wherein the Energy/Mass input must be equal to the sum of the Energy Output plus the Energy/Mass losses:

Energy / Mass Input =OUTPUT + LOSSES

INPUTS:

A ) Gravitational force induced elevation heads of the main reservoir and the tail reservoir and specific weight of water at about 9810 n/m³.

B ) Velocity head of about 1200 m. jet released from converted water hammer pressure.

C ) Vacuum suction force formed after sudden huge discharge in the main penstock pulling in volume of water directly from the main reservoir, that operates on the Principle of Conservation of Energy.

D ) Recoil force of the jet.

E ) Compressed air pressure inside the surge tanks accumulated by the surging water during the compression phase.

F ) Atmospheric air pressure of 10.3 meters of water that pushes into the surge tanks during the

de-compression phase.

G ) Rotational inertia force of the rotor in motion.

H ) Mechanical force of electric motor i.e, main pump; the auxiliary pump; the PERIODIC RE-BOOSTING PUMP and the uni-direction spherical valves.

I ) Mass of water added to the main reservoir as needed through the replenishment pipe.

OUTPUTS:

a. Generated electrical energy of at least 50 MW

LOSES:

a. Frictional head loss

b. Energy loss as heat

c. Pipe wall expansion energy loss

d. Machineries efficiency loss

e. Evaporation of water molecules

This looks like it will run forever, if you can build the first one. They usually want a working model of a perpetual motion machine....

This is not a hydraulic ram nor is it a " perpetual motion systyem ". A claimed perpetual motion system does not need any RE-BOOSTING of energy from outside the closed energy loop once it is started. This needs a periodic re-boosting of energy from a re-boosting generator to accomplish its level of output.

I cannot read all the details. but it seems to use the electric power from the water hammer to power the water hammer and get extra energy. = above unity gain = perpetual energy device.

Following is a statement in the patent literature:

As with all moving energy system subjected to dissipative friction and gravity, it will eventually wanes its power output; therefore an out of the energy loop- re-boosting pump is used periodically to sustain the intended power output.

This statement clearly quantifies the output as having a limit, therefore the system which are closed energy loops need an out of the energy loop input ( presented as an isolated linear input to the system shown on the left hand side of the drawing --if you look carefully ).

This condition disqualifies it as a perpetual motion system.

In that case, send the power from the re-boosting pump directly to the output, saving the two losses and friction loss as well.

Take mine please: [redacted] Thanks

Mr. Aurizon,

New ideas will have skeptics. That's natural and is expected.

1. Bringing the re-boosting pump directly to the outlet will defeat its purpose of drawing in natural force inputs into the main penstock. An example is the pressure differential vacuum suction force. This pressure force is at least 3 m elevation head from the reservoir plus 10.3 meter atmospheric pressure. This against the low pressured condition after the expulsion of big volume of water from the penstock.

2. Imagine the Main pump - penstock - outlet as the main power route system. The momentum will be conserved if no other outside force is introduced to cause imbalances. But here we have outside forces acting on the system such as: a) gravitational force induced atmospheric pressure and elevation heads pushing into the penstock and b) the equal and opposite in direction jet recoil force pumping a highly pressurized water column into the penstock causing imbalances.

3. Few people understand the magnitude of a fast moving elastic liquid collission. The celerity of 1400 m/sec on a 10m/s liquid flow will shatter the ordinary utility steel pipelines readily. Its transients force is as shocking as a tsunami. Just review the book references I mentioned, and you would be amazed.

you act as if I do not understand the water hammer principal. I do.

What you need is an energy balance and some readable pictures.

Mr. Aurizon,

If you don't object, I would like to send you the patent literature asap.

This is not a contest to see who has the last word. Please bear with me. Thanks.

OK, [redacted] is my e-mail address.

It appears you intend to use a hydroram to generate sufficient kinetic energy to drive a Pelton wheel. To increase kinetic force, you can either connect several rams in series to deliver a powerful a very powerful force, or you can use several rams in parallel to deliver a much greater volume of water to the wheel.

Take mine please: bostjan.gnezda@hidria-rotomatika.si Thanks