"Dirty Electricity"

"Eventual monitoring of the evoked potential from the EEG, combined with radio frequency and microwave broadcast designed to produce specific thoughts or moods, such as compliance and complacency, promises a method of mind control that poses immense danger to all societies - tyranny without terror."

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Statistics are funny things. Sometimes you can flip a coin and get heads 10 times in a row.

Here is the area. Lots of residential homes. I want to hear the cancer statistics for the entire area before I believe it's from dirty electricity.

There is no reason to believe that only schools would be targeted. Where are the rest of the victims?

You want serious takes on this.... awww. Where's the fun in that.

Seriously... Stetzer has competition... check out the EMPOR. and the best part is the meter down below, only an extra $99 so you can tell if it's working or not...

Electricity.. RFI... WIFI... it's all dirty as far as I'm concerned. I mean, haven't you ever noticed when there's a massive power outage, that you immediately feel relief, as in some constant source of irritation has been removed? On the other hand, though, as long as it's on, I'll just press my face up close to this here glowing screen for as many hours of the day as I can handle....

Dirty electricity is a catch phrase an means nothing

What is the actual GS (Graham-Stetzer) meter measuring?

Gauss

A friend buys into that topic and has a filter on a kitchen circuit, and the measure able EMF vanishes...

FARAD - Food Animal Residue Avoidance Database

No exit strategy

In the portions of the clips I watched, I didn't any good exposition of what is allegedly/really going on. No explanation of the meter, what it measures, and what units. The videos were long on anecdotes and scare mongering, but short on theory (whether likely or not).

Did people report similar problems with straight-tube fluorescents? How do the new ones differ, if at all?

If there is really a problem, does crying wolf help? (I'm not concluding this, but wondering.)

"No explanation of the meter, what it measures, and what units. The videos were long on anecdotes and scare mongering, but short on theory..."

You've described the make of a Discovery B.S. video.

On a related matter -

What's to stop the energy companies using electrons with less than the normal amount of charge on them.

Has anyone actually checked this recently? It would explain my rising power bills!!!!!

Agreed, the electrons coming into my home have about one quarter the charge they had a few years ago...like watering down a good whiskey drink, (that would be Wild Turkey or Jack Daniels) "they" have seemingly used electron sequestering technology to abate my conservation attempts.

"They" are watering down whiskey now, is nothing sacred?

By the way, I looked up "electron sequestering technology" on Google but found nothing - convincing proof that there's a cover up going on.

It's really is a cover up,the Government is keeping all the "Fat" Electricity for itself for Military use.That's where all those sequestered Electrons are going ! The truth is out there

Dave Barry checked this out one time...

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/Perl/Misc/electricity.txt

Awesome...I love Dave Barry's stuff.

Bob Transformer made me laugh out loud...my co-workers already think I am crazy so it's cool.

Love Canal, Three Mile Island, Microwave ovens, cathode ray tube, cell phones, cigarettes, food preservatives and dye, milk, mercury, and many others. To me the common fear factor is generally if people do not understand something they will eventually blame it for something. I agree about the statistical studies usually justifying what the requesters or organization that pays for the study wants to demonstrate.

It is sad that cancer has seen little progress towards our ability cure it. The pharmaceutical companies will get extremely rich with any proven signs of beneficial treatment.

I fear that DNS studies will be a new first step proving that certain DNAs will be more susceptible to certain cancers. The health insurance companies will use it to determine policy costs similar to what car insurance companies do certain cars, geographical area, and miles driven. Any of those factors could be "statistically proven" wrong if I paid for the study.

" It is sad that cancer has seen little progress towards our ability cure it"

No, this is just not true. Cancer is not one thing it's a wide family of problems and many now have highly effective treatments. Even the cancer that killed Steve Jobs could probably have been treated if he'd had it removed when it was first discovered rather than relying on voodoo.

The fact is we all die sometime, from something and that's not the same as saying no progress has been made.

My father (81) died in 2001 of pancreatic cancer that spread to liver and lungs. Discovery to death was about 3 months. My younger sister died of pancreatic cancer in 2008. Discovery to death was a little more than 2 years. She had significant chemo and radiation treatments to the point she could no longer withstand the side effect of the treatments so choose to have the last six weeks as comfortable as possible..Her husband was discovered with pancreatic cancer in 2009. He had partial removal and chemo treatments and is still alive. Did discussion take place about a common environmental factor? You would be surprised how many things in common we touched on but there are 10 to 15 thousand other people living in the same environments. I am pretty sure Steve Jobs suffered from pancreatic cancer. I am not sure that was the cause of death. His environment was probably significantly different but if that cancer can be tied to an environmental factor, we will probably all be candidates.

I offer the above as an example of small pieces of data that someone could attempt to reason some conclusion. Of the many cancers that can be contracted, to me pancreatic seems to have the more drastic common result.

Coincidence is NOT causality.

I had a hard time listening to all that free flowing nonsense seamlessly slipping into the next. As to the teachers, they may have been a fluke, the school may have been sprayed for roaches, or the teachers may have been recommending each others to spray their homes with the same stuff. See, I can run off the mouth, like the next. Making as little sense too.

Dirty power, dirty water, dirty air, dirty mind. Ah, the last one! Now we are getting somewhere: having so much garbage in there, a sane thought cannot fit in edgevise.

Coincidence is NOT causality.

coincidence is not causality, true enough, but

causality could be (wrongly) relegated to coincidence. Research is more useful when it denies causality, not when it suggests coincidence. Although the teachers could have been a fluke, denial of plausibility is hardly scientific. Until someone asks everyone of them if they used a pesticide, that is on the table.

The author implies plausibility, which I doubt, but the study (sic) is attempting (ok, I'll accept a hit on this one) to find causality. That is worthy.

"About "Medical Hypotheses" The purpose of Medical Hypotheses is to provide a forum for the presentation and criticism of ideas in medicine and the related biomedical sciences. Most biomedical journals will publish ideas only in papers which also report observations. As the best scientists have repeatedly emphasized, this gives a misleading impression of the process of discovery." This is the journal that the quacks referred to publish in. Nothing new here. No evidence, just bullish*t hypotheses. In college, we call them hand-waving hypotheses ... some freshman jerk in the back of the class has some dumb idea and waves his hand madly until the prof calls on him. We all just sigh... Dirty electricity is when there are high frequency components on the house current, which can be caused by chopper type power supplies, brush type motors, gas discharge tubes and their transformers, etc. If there's ever a legitimate finding, it will be on the evening news, every channel.

Hmm . . . .Ozone ?

Oddly enough there was a station in Ontario which covered this. The clips are on YouTube where the "inventor" travels to a young mother's house to assess her dirty power and installs these filter thingamabobs to assuage her fears that her kids will all die soon is something isn't done.

The parting segment shows her slightly weeping as she kisses the head of a child in her arms saying that she just must do something to protect her children.

Of course, now half of the outlets in the house are unusable which would predicate more outlets and more wiring. Which would then of course require more magic filters, more outlets, more wiring, more filters, more outlets, more wiring...etc., etc., etc.

Dirty electricity has 2 aspects-1) evil effects(health) of electricity when you go near an overhead line or equipment like hair dryer, drill,fan,Xray,MRI etc which the utility/state should teach the public.

2)dirt(harmonics,RFI,EMI etc)in power supply injected by some consumers which could be punished by state/utility.This never happens and many electrical devices start ageing quickly or even burning due to lightning,switching surge etc

I watched the video and found it completely unconvincing. There are many other factors that are common to the people that work at that school. It may just be a statistical occurrence.

A real scientific study would look at thousands of buildings and look for a correlation of cancer rate with other factors. Once a correlation is found, then look for a physical explanation. You cannot learn anything from a single example. How many trend lines can you draw through a single data point?

I really felt sorry for the state official who really was trying to be scientific about it all. He cannot say one way or the other that this is what is happening or that "dirty electricity" can completely be ruled out. It's hard to reason with someone when they confront you with something that is so totally whack, but you cannot prove it.

It's like trying to prove that someone is actually crazy. Unless they are sitting there eating their own crap and babbling on about being Napoleon or something, how do you differentiate that with the guy who says he can feel 400 Hz waves penetrating his kidneys and makes him pee five times an hour?

Make it stop! Make it stop! Okay...let me just plug this little guy in right-cheah....there you go...all better? Oooh, yes mad scientist...you're my hero!!! No problem at all ma'am. That should keep all those damn hippies out of your house as well. Here's my bill. Have a nice McDay!

"..how do you differentiate that with the guy who says he can feel 400 Hz waves penetrating his kidneys and makes him pee five times an hour?"

That's not "dirty electricity" that's the dirty device wars.

There's only one way the causal correlation between 400 Mhz waves and pee frequency could be true, and that is, if he's been exploited as a human guinea pig or simply targeted for misery with a wireless sacral nerve stimulator implant, and is in range of the external transmitter for the device. UHF around the 400 hz mark is typical for some designs of constant voltage stimulation (see for example the "Electrical Stimulation" section here.) You could start by asking where the 400 hz figure came from, whether it's based on any real data or is assumed on the basis of the literature. There are other designs that use different frequencies for stimulus transmission.

Medical imaging and/or removal of the offending device may be difficult due to the position of the sacral nerve in the spine, and the low profile of a device which uses a receiver/preamp instead of an implanted pulse generator. So it's difficult to assume the device is not there. Abuse of a device like this can eventually kill a person, IMHO, taking it to the point of kidney failure.

One professional service you could provide is proper design of an appropriate "tin foil patch" which would effectively block a 400 Mhz signal from activating the SNS device. But if the frequency is assumed from literature and not based on actual data, the patch will not work if the actual frequency is lower than the figure which is assumed.

The wavelength at 400 Mhz is 75 cm, and an effective obstacle must be at least 1/10 of the wavelength. So the patch should be at least 7.5 cm long, even if the device itself has a diameter of 2mm. A layered approach, using 7.5 cm squares of conductive material alternating with a good absorbing marzipan felt, and ending with a slightly larger felt between the conductors and the person's skin or clothes, is recommended. The correct placement of the patch is absolutely key but difficult to define, since the receiver end may be on a lead some small distance from the sacral electrode itself. For a patch of this size, a repositionable velcro arrangement could be used to attach to the most effective position somewhere near the base of the spine. It's going to be socially awkward.

If that doesn't relieve the problem, and suppose the frequency is 40 Mhz instead of 400, your basic patch needs to be a lot longer. A workable patch can be made by folding the right length of material - 75 cm in this case a ten times longer piece. It's going to be.. even more socially awkward. This may be difficult, even for haute couture.

Of course, if someone is getting at the guy in this manner, you can bet they are running a business in the area, probably moving people out of real estate they want to acquire, and are not about to be stopped by a patch for long. They will get in, and they'll bug the patch itself with a tiny linear or class C amp for the offending signal. Then he will come back to you, asking for a better patch.

If you don't do sewing services or temporary fixes, and you have the real gear kicking around, you might consider doing a few sweeps of the likely frequency bands, especially unlicensed ISM where this sort of %#$@ may be lurking. You might actually round up some bioterrorists. Please kick their butts for me if you do.

I would imagine that people who work with or near high voltage lines have been studied to death. Pun intended. If it was a major factor the EPA would be highly remiss in not finding and reporting it.

I have wondered about this, since I live near high power lines. Well maybe medium power lines, in my front yard, about 125 feet from my desk. I don't use a cell phone much, but have heard the most concern about them. I am especially concerned about the new ones, with all the lightning bolts, that I keep seeing in TV ads.

If it was a major factor the EPA would be highly remiss in not finding and reporting it.

Here's a headline you might not see:

"The US EPA has discovered that high tension lines cause cancer. It will therefore be required that the entire electrical grid be dismantled and rebuilt in an underground metal conduit system. Not until this project is complete will the population be safe."

I personally believe the EPA is not remiss, but corralled. Economic considerations will always usurp public safety if the price tag is great enough. The only question is "who is the cowboy?"

High and medium voltage transmission lines were investigated for many decades. Things were not reported, because there is not much of anything to sink a sensationalist tooth into. In this case, those long ago dastardly engineers were, who messed up the fun and games.

They created a balanced 3 wire transmission system, with a 4.th wire on top for ligtning protection. The three wires in this 3 phase system are precisely balanced agains each other, and only very little leaks out, for you to notice and measure. Not iust because they love your beautiful blue eyes. But, because only the balanced (real) power can be sold. Anything extra (circulating current) is loading the system, causes problems, and cannot be sold. The utilities self interest alone dictates precise balancing, and they do it. The leakage is so low, the utilities use sensitive equipment to measure it.

Now, here is the funny part. Go out to your utility pole, where your transformer is located. Simply follow the wire with your eyes. It will lead to a single wire at the top of the transformer. That is the sign of an unbalanced power source. And don't tell me about buried power wiring. It may or may not be balanced too!

Recently, I sold the old family home. The street hookup is normal, and behind it was a high power (250kiloVolt, or so) on high steel lattice towers. The utility's technician measured much less from the balanced high power line, than from the street under a 20 kilowatt transformer for the home.

But, obviously, reality is boring compared to extraordinary perceptions, imaginations, and other iuicy stories.

-------------------------------------------

Nothing was reported, because there is nothing there, there!

The implication that a balanced system does not contain an electromagnetic radiation element might not fly with some.

Hogwash like this brings to mind the old saying "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?".

That's some kind of powerful field. Not only is it making the lights glow, but it's making the kid disappear.

Gotta love hogwash !

Did anyone try to operate a generator or motor using this field under HT power lines?. By the way what will be the values of electrical and magnetic fields under lines rated at 11kV,33kV,66kV,132kV,275kV,400kV etc, can some body provide?.

Evidently stealing power using induction is easy. See this .

Can you give some measured values for my question in post nr 34,or give a web address or link to get required answers?.

Years ago I heard of a deadly weapon that was made with a simple microwave oven that was aimed at an adjoining apartment. Can't remember more than that. I also remember that the Russians were blasting microwaves or? at one of our embassies either to make our diplomats sick or for some other reason.

Re; # 30- 38.

Since there were no questions concerning 3 wire balanced transmission lines, I put down some markers: 99, xx% of the E field lines, 99,xx% of the M field lines terminate within themselves. You, on the ground may experience a distance attenuated and area distributed weakened remainder of it only. But, it is for another time.

As to the tubes burning, planted under the high power line. The "artiste"'s work is curious, so are his followers. A 100Watts 110Volts light tube needs 1Amps to light up right. Now, the "artiste" is the same size, as the tubes. When 1 Amps flows thru his worthless carcass, he is deader than a doornail, or a texas convictee. For the rest of the world, getting zapped by 1Amps makes you dead, dead, as in dead. Get it? That 'Artiste" may be saved by Photoshop. Short of that, he is a broiler.

To make it sure, I do not miss my mark, I went out and measured at a few spots under a high power line to humor some participants. All AC currents were measured under 10 microAmps (not Amps, not milliamps, but microamps). Feel free to repeat the measurements, with a decent meter, and report them. I bet they will be in the same meaningless range.

The difference made up by the hot air provided by the "artiste".

Clearly the characteristics of a discharge tube and HV transmission are mysteries.

How many turns do you use to measure and what was the voltage of the lines?

"Balanced" refers to load current and voltage.

The field rotates, much as the generator does.

Ref "Artiste" "broiler": 100 W/ 33kV = ?

Sonny, the characteristics of a discharge tube and HV transmission line may be a mystery to you. But, not to the rest of the world.

Balanced refers to the structure of the presented transmission line. Turns used to measure anything?!? None, intentionally, that is. Now, if you refer to measuring field potential, we may be talking turkey. But, I am confident, that is too complicated.......

Ref. "artiste's" broiler : 100 Watts light tube requires 1 Amps to light up properly. Not 33kVolts as 34..... refers to. What is 33kV in Amps after all, 34....??!?

I ask for patience from folks, who get it, that: Volts x Amps = Watts (on the device we talk about providing light). Sonny, clearly you do not get it at all. A tube needs a fraction of 110Volts and the full 1 Amps to light up. As it is a gas discharge tube. High voltage many kiloVolts on the device?? Not with the physics I know on God's green earth, that is!!

"Sony" - ah Mr Bubbles, so typically 'nose out of joint' aggressive.

We are taking measurement - but you do not say how you did it, meaning your 'test' is likely Beyond Sleeveless.

100 W at 33 kV is also beyond your math?

Nothing like 1 Amp

discharge tube fundamentals

Ahhh, 34. I might be impatient. I value you as a frequent contributor, however misguided, now.

Insulator breakdown is spectacular, but hardly relevant.

Cold gas breakdown is still in use, but not relevant to the question at hand. It is cold gas discharge He, Ne displays in store windows.

It is helpful to know the facts. Ligth tubes are warm cathode, Hg (quicksilver loaded) gas devices. All designed to strike low, maintain low voltage discharge. Calling them anything else, than they are, is profoundly nonproductive.

Other than that, it is your call.

I agree.

Even more demonstrative is a neon tube, like used in signs. They work with higher voltages and are only limited in current by the transformer device.

(have no real filaments and only a connection at each end)

Long before Mr. Levelless was born they tend to glow up close to high voltage lines.

On a different frequency, but 80 years ago gas bulbs were also used to see if the transmitter was sending its energy to the antenna in broadcast applications.

For a fluorescent tube to light under HV line what is the electric and magnetic field strengths required?. For normal fluorescents how much striking voltage is needed by ballast,will it get same voltage under the HV line?.

I do not know for sure what the field strength requirements are to light up a fluorescent tube, but I DO remember, back in the US Army radio school, we would hold up an unconnected fluorescent tube parallel to a transmitting radio antenna (I believe about 125 W RF output, if memory serves), and they would light up fairly brightly. I also don't remember exactly how far away from the antenna the tube had to be- probably on the order of a foot or so to get decent light output. I am sure the artist was getting the same effect- note that his photos were time exposures, meaning the lamps weren't glowing that brightly...

Indeed; the person in the photo was there for maybe half the time; notice the background that appears in front of him... (Otherwise, he would be even more bleached out than kramarat noticed.)

"The "artiste"'s work is curious, so are his followers."

I'm not sure what your angle is here. This "artiste" is one of many people who have demonstrated this effect. This shows another example and does not reflect the flavor of "followers". If you cannot define what is going on here, fine. Insulting 34.5 while driveling out facts that describe why it can't happen are not useful. Particularly when you can see that it does happen.

All I am hearing from you is (and I repeat)..."Who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?".

For the short attention span people (at hand 2 on toto) I ask, again:

Which part of 100Watts = 100Volts x 1 Amps do not YOU understand?? Until you grasp at least that much, discussion with you is unproductive.

The "artiste" could not possibly produce the conditions for an honest picture. As it takes 1Amps to light up a tube full.

Hence the "artiste" had to use Photoshop to its max.

IF you believe the photo, I remind you that the maximum safely allowable current thru the body is 10 or 20 milliAmps. The turkey "artiste" -if one believes the picture - has a 1 Amps coursing thru his body. He - then - is a dead turkey. So are you siding with him, so to speak.

But, come back, please. People need to see your responses. They are priceless.

You obviously did not view the video link in my last post. In that video (actual network news report) many "dead turkeys" are shown making a complete a$$ out of you and your ilk.

Perhaps the part where the same 100 W tube runs at ~ 0.42 A on 240 volts?

But there is more!

"When the lamp is off, the mercury/gas mixture is non-conductive. When power is first applied, a high voltage (several hundred volts) is needed to initiate the discharge. However, once this takes place, a much lower voltage - usually under 100 V for tubes under 30 watts, 100 to 175 volts for 30 watts or more - is needed to maintain it"

Trigger V

So 100 W at 700 V? - so 140 mA?

No, nothing like that because the lamps are not running at 100 W output. They just have enough volts to 'trigger', and not enough current to do more than glow.

Still confusing? think Aurora Borealis

Are you saying that it takes 100 watts to strike a fluorescent tube, or are you saying that is what it takes to keep it lit, after after striking? I hope the former, otherwise algore will come here and shut down the site. What do you call a scientific superstition? An "AlGoreithm" I made that up, pretty good huh?

At any rate, the picture, and same with the RADARs and other RF transmitters "lighting" the tubes. All that is happening are the phosphors are being excited by the RF Field. And which field would it be, the E or H? Would it be the same field regardless of the frequency? The mercury has not been vaporized as during normal operation. I too have gotten excited when in some fields, and some of me even glowed. Are I a fluorescent tube?

Yes

It takes far less than 1 amp (which is a meaningless term in this context) to get a very dim fluorescence. It would be on the order or milliwatts, I believe. Is it harmful? Seems it is not, but some people want to know more. I concur.

Why all the vitriol?

I used to enjoy lighting up a small flickering (designed to flicker like a flame) candelabra bulb, held in my hand, with static electricity from a nylon carpet and leather shoes. Wondered what the potential of bio-electrical power was, but never researched it. No internet in those days.

Well it's nice to see someone getting GA's to illuminate facts from pontificating misinformation.

Have another.

Thanks. Personally, I found your explanation of the fluorescent tube to be .... thoroughly illuminating. _{and I didn't know the trick about touching it in the middle either.}

Under "how electric current affects the body" they have given for certain values of current how the body will be affected. It's fine but had any body given the duration(ms or sec)for which an average person/kids can withstand those values of current without serious damage?. In fact I=V/R, therefore I depends on voltage(ac/dc) and R,I belief,varies from person to person and from kids to ladies/men of different mascular strength. Why don't they give voltages and resistances of persons of different age/sex .

In fact IEE assumes a touch voltage of 50 for calculating the earth loop impedance.

The vitriol

has it's origin in the brown facts a certain member, is fond of spewing