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HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/24/2011 7:33 AM

Firstly I have to decide what material of construction to use for vacuum piping for an acidic system (Hydrochloric Acid and Water).

The most commonly available PTFE-lined steel equipment and pipework are problematic. In particular the flanges required for joining such pipe work together are familiar weak points that require a high level of maintenance work. Moreover, corrosion of the steel shell due to permeation of media through the PTFE liner is often unavoidable. Owing to the "loose" PTFE liner used in steel structures, such systems also have only limited vacuum tightness. Also, long exposure to elevated temperatures brings about these problems faster.

I tried to find out about coating fluoropolymers instead of lining but apparently long lengths of pipelines are not available.

Please suggest. Also, what flanges and valves do I use in that case.

We are using HDPE pipes and flanges and I don't even want to get down to explaining how much air leakage we are trying to deal with. Do you have any ideas about better flanges in HDPE perhaps to reduce air leak?

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#1

Re: HDPE vacuum flanges perhaps?

10/24/2011 7:50 AM

If it's HDPE, it can be thermally-welded to eliminate joints.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: HDPE vacuum flanges perhaps?

10/24/2011 9:07 AM

That about covers it.

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#3

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/24/2011 4:46 PM

Further to the remarks previously provided, there are vacuum systems that utilise plastic pipe instead of lined pipes. There are a range of fittings suitable for that pipe including flanges, "T"s and bends.

What "vacuum" and temperature profile are you working with?

In our industry, we have some locations with vacuum sewer transfer at around 0.4atm (-0.6 relative to atm). Systems are up to 5km of total pipe nominal 100mm ID, maintained with constant vacuum.

Look to the reputable pipe suppliers for advice, but properly constructed "fusion" joints have not been a problem.

Fusion joints in the water network are also showing great reliability at pressures up to 80m head of water.

You may even find the plastic pipes are less expensive that your lined pipes.

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#4

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/25/2011 9:44 AM

Zasmine what temperatures are you dealing with ? HDPE pipe and fittings are limited in pressure above certain temperatures. At 73 degree farenheit SDR11 pipe can handle 160psi in water service. In your application the recommended pressure is half of this 80psi. This pressure ratings declines as years of service add up and temperatures increase. As PWSlack commented you can fuse the joints with butt or electrofusion to eliminate flange connections.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/25/2011 10:19 AM

This is a vacuum system.

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#6

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/25/2011 2:21 PM

Are you considering the HDPE piping for piping the hydrochloric acid & water mixture? HDPE is susceptible to environmental stress cracking (ESC). I saw that you were concerned with the air leakage you are getting, but you also need to be aware of the chemical compatability. ESC related failures will be seen well below those predicted mechanically & thermally.

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#7

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

10/28/2011 1:34 AM

We are dealing with a vacuum of about 5 torr and about 50 deg C temperature.

Fusion weld sounds like a simple solution, I am just concerned about the ability of the pipe to withstand the vacuum with the acid being a major chunk of the hardly-condensable load.

We are familiar with ESC, especially when using HDPE pipes for scrubbers, we've had quite a few breakdowns. And in the place where we are operating the ambient temperatures range from 8 deg C in winter to more than 45 deg C in summer, pretty dry though most of the year. So, say we don't use HDPE, what kind of pipes do I look at?

I understand there are some coated pipes instead of lined with fluoropolymers. Any experience with them?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: HDPE Vacuum Flanges Perhaps?

11/14/2011 6:00 AM

<...don't use HDPE, what kind of pipes...>

Any material that is compatible with hydrochloric acid!

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Among the possibilities are PVC and borosilicate glass.

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Just an Engineer (1); lyn (2); polymerfan (1); PWSlack (2); roadapple (1); zasmine (1)

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