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Rough Running Maxima

11/21/2011 5:22 PM

I have a 91 Nissan Maxima that has been a very reliable workhorse, until this summer. It was relegated to standby status last year and was used only occasionally. But when called upon it was always ready. During this past summer it was called upon to take some river rafters on a trip. They parked the car along the river at the take out point. When the rafting journey ended the found the car would not start. I was out of town for several weeks during this so I only had second hand information related from my wife from her friends that had taken the car. Her friends asked some of the rafting company folks about the car and found that it had been honking and the lights flashing for some time. Someone, somehow got the lights and horn to stop but everything but the horn and lights was dead. The friends discovered that all their electronic devices that were in the car that had displays on them were showing 'all sorts of strange characters'. Someone else told them that there was a nearby lightning strike when the car went 'off''.

Of course I get called, thousands of miles away, to 'fix this' so they can get home. I had the car towed home thinking there was a fuse or something of that nature and I would get to it when I got home. I looked everything over to find nothing obvious other than the Security light blinking. After searching the web I discovered that the Security system on these vehicles was a problem at times and it would disable the entire car. I found the wiring and jumpers required to disable the system which only turned off the Security dash light. Still dead. I went in and hot wired the starter and controls for the fuel pump and computer. I replaced the engine computer also. It started up but was running a little rough. Upon close inspection I noticed some varmit damage on a couple of plug wires. I replaced the cap rotor and wires. The plugs have less than 5K miles on them so I bypassed them. With the new wires the engine was running worse and was harder to start than before. The engine is a V6 3.0 Liter, I found that pulling the #1 and #6 plugs had no effect on the engine all others killed the engine. the plugs were all clean except #1 had a little black on it like it was rich.

So is it possible the lightning took out a fuel injector? Or something else? How can I verify this. Should I put it out by the river to see if another shock treatment will cure it? The dash clock that has never worked since I have had this car is now working flawlessly. Thanks

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#1

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/21/2011 7:07 PM

It sounds like you mixed up the plug wires, would check that first...

Remove the distributor cap and turn the engine until you reach Top dead center (The notch on the engine pulley is lined up with the pointer). Ensure that the distributor rotor is pointing to the number one spark plug wire tower of the cap. Now you have found your base for checking the rest.

The 3 cylinders closest to the firewall, starting from the passenger side of the car would be cylinders 1, 3 and 5, and the 3 on the other side, 2, 4, and 6.

The distributor turns clockwise, and the firing order is 1,2,3,4,5,6.

In other words, after checking that the number one tower of the distributor is connected to the number one spark plug, you would check the next one (going clockwise), which should connect to number 2, then number 3, etc.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/22/2011 8:46 AM

If switching the plug wires does not bring back 1 and 6, remove the plugs from each of those cylinders, and switch them to a good running cylinder. It is possible that running with no spark has allowed the plugs to build up deposits that are now conductive, and not lighting up the fuel mixture. By switching the plugs to a different cylinder, you will be able to determine if 1 and 6 will run normally with a clean plug in them.

If so, the engine heat, and some road speed driving might just clean off those fouls up plugs.

If 1 and 6 remain dead, I would suggest checking the injectors in 1 and 6. I found a tester that looks like a small pistol with a pointed probe on it. By putting the tip of the probe on the injector, it causes the internal light of the tester to flash on each time it feels the injector pulse. Easy test. Good luck.

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#3

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/22/2011 11:14 PM

I had the 3.0 in a 300ZX. Loved the motor but did have fuel injectors die on me. My test was to use a automotive stethoscope (or a long screwdriver type device to your ear if you can reach it) and touch it on the frame of the injector where it fits into the intake manifold.You will hear a very big difference between an injector that is snapping open and closed (good) and one that is sluggish or not opening at all. Caution, mine had little retaining wire clips that held the electrical connector onto the injector connector and they are easily knocked off and fly to places you won't ever know of even after you sell the car. You do need the clips or the connector will loosen after a few trips and cause trouble when the car is a the farther most point from the repair location. Also make sure you get new doughnuts for the injector seal to the manifold hole. You are not supposed to reuse them as it may be a fire problem (was a recall on my model).

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#4

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/22/2011 11:31 PM

I had a Maxima do exactly what your friends experienced. The problem was the alternator.

Battery had enough power blow horn and to see lights, but loss of consistent power flow from alternator screwed up the electronics.

New alternator fixed the problem and it worked just fine for 2 more years until I traded it in on a new model.

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#5

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 2:02 AM

Never take things for granted, like plugs working, just because they don't have a lot of miles. A cracked insulator can render a brand new plug useless, and since they are so easy to check for condition, why wouldn't you? OTOH, you may be on to something with the injectors, but I would expect that they are dead, only clogged. Especially since the car has set for a while. Verify that your wires are on correctly, and that all the plugs are gapped properly (you did gap your plugs, right?), and firing. Visually inspect the connections to the injectors. Run the tank down to a half, and add a bottle of good injector cleaner. Drive it to a quarter tank, add another bottle and fill the tank. It'd probably be a good idea to change the fuel filter right after this. Good luck.

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#6

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 4:58 AM

If a lightning strike was to blame (difficult to be certain I know), there is a better way to go first before you start changing things out.

It is simply that you remove the positive battery connection (make sure that you have the radio code handy!) and leave it off for at least 24 hours.

As lightning can scramble the "brains" of any car with processors, even a 91 has some, and giving 24 hours for all the electrolytic caps to fully discharge forces the processors to perform some sort of basic "re-boot" and give you a really good chance of recovering the problems.....

It may not have helped in your case, I cannot say or not, but it is a cheap and easy first step....

If you still haven't done it, I would try it right now, it cannot hurt......though as you have already changed so much, it might not do much good now. Having the battery off for a few hours is NOT the same......and make it 48 hours if you can....

I have used this technique on cars, trucks, calculators and other equipment with reasonable success, say about 50 - 75%...........best of luck.

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#7

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 8:21 AM

Disconnect the clock!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 12:13 PM

How will the OP be able to tell when the 24-48 hour memory drain down time is completed?

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 12:18 PM

Hopefully he can read a watch and a calendar!!

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#10

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 5:25 PM

Yes! the clock. Darn, not it. Well I did have the battery off for about a week while I was waiting on the new engine computer to get in and I found a few comments about using the key in the passenger door or drivers door turned to a half position then back to reset the security module. None of that worked. The distrib cap was neat as it showed the cylnder number at each port, so I was able to verify the correct wiring. If the correct rotation of the rotor is CW the firing order was 1,5,3,4,2,6. I also swapped the spark plugs with no noticeable change. I'm going to search for one of those testers and find a compresion checker to see what may be going on there. Thanks for all the input and suggestions

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#11

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/23/2011 5:28 PM

Sorry to criticize, but a "48 hours drain time" is pretty ridiculous and not based on any known requirements for automotive applications. An hour is more than sufficient to bleed off any residual charge. OTOH, it is apparent that the vehicle wasn't "hit" by lightning. The concussion from the strike may have been responsible for setting off the alarm, but a lightning strike leaves an unmistakable mark. The OP has received a lot of "advice" from people who clearly have never been a real mechanic, and this is common in all the auto forums that I frequent. The symptoms described are easily attributable to factors that result from a vehicle sitting around, and just a few logical steps would show any real mechanic what the problem/s and solutions to those, are. Those are illustrated in my OP. I'm sure that you guys are all real smart, but you don't seem to have a clue about simple automobiles. I'm betting the local shops love you...and your money.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/24/2011 5:55 AM

A friend of mine in 91, was driving his brand new 5 series BMW through a storm when lighning struck a tree about 500 yards away. Car stopped. Got it to the BMW using the emergency switch.

He found out that his seats got hot and he had no electrically heated seats....It turns out that all had them, but only those who paid could switch them on and off.

Many wires were melted, after 6 months of trying to get the car repaired, he was given a new car......

This shows that lightning does not have to strike, the massive spark sends very strong radio waves that can affect sensitive equipment that is not properly protected....a good reason to HiPot everything!!!

The car industry was still learning at that time.............

Not that my fix would have fixed that problem, but you would be amazed how often it helps....

by the way, I have never seen it written down as to how long it needed to be powered off and I work for a small company that buys ex-leasing cars, gets them working correctly and sells them for a profit, this battery off "trick" is used at least once a week to fix some problems with computer equipment in cars......many, many makes.

It certainly does not fix everything, but its a cheap way to start!!!!

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/27/2011 12:02 AM

Welcome to the site.

While many of the members here are not earning a living from repairing vehicles, I can assure you that this site has some VERY sharp minds here. Most "odd"responses are the result of a similar experience that worked for them.

Like this. An 84 Ford LTD. 3.8 engine. When left to sit for a day or two it would not start. Open the hood and close it again and it would restart. I was told that the hood release cable was hitting a wire that killed the ignition. It was not the problem, but it did fit the results.

Feel free to object if you see faulty logic. Or outright wrong suggestions, but please rubber stamp the members till you have ridden out a few threads here, and seen the results. Please keep an open mind, and enjoy the ride.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/27/2011 2:53 AM

Thanks Bob, but you seem to have missed the point of my post. I noted that I wasn't doubting anyone's intelligence, only their experience with the subject at hand. I've seen plenty of very "smart" people waste a lot of time and money on problems that they only make worse, when if they really understood the system involved, and the way to accurately diagnose the issues, then they can consistently come to a real conclusion about how to fix the problem. Works every time. OTOH, the local auto parts stores are very happy to take your money while you throw this and that after a problem that you don't really understand. I only offered the insight since I know what I'm talking about. BTW, rubber stamp...you're kidding, right?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/27/2011 4:52 AM

The trick is for the OP to ride the thread and see what all the guesses and logical suggestions are, hear them being debated and poo pooed ,as you have done, and then hit the shops or not.

At the very least the OP will have a different view and a better understanding of what might be wrong.

There are always plenty of suggested checks, that do not involve a purchase, presented for the purpose of garnering more data to assist in the diagnosis.

Hopefully the OP responds along the way and then lets everybody know how the problem was sorted in the end and so everybody either learns something or has their confidence reinforced.

This is an open peer review and brainstorming session. Have fun.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/27/2011 6:47 PM

My mistake. I realize that I'm a little old for the "social networking" thing. I was raised to actually fix things that were broken, so that I could get on to other things. But that's just me, I have to actually be productive in life. I guess I didn't realize that this was all just a verbal circle jerk, and actually taking care of the problem was not what people were trying to do, at all. Still trying to figure out how you smart guys are getting paid to do nothing, while I come in and fix what's wrong. Sorry I wasted your space and time. I'll go back to work, and you boys can play with yourselves.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/27/2011 8:52 PM

"My mistake. I realize that I'm a little old for the "social networking" thing."

None of us are getting any younger mate

"I was raised to actually fix things that were broken, so that I could get on to other things."

An admirable trait! You would be well aware then, that diagnosis and repair is a process not an event

"But that's just me, I have to actually be productive in life."

You are not alone

"I guess I didn't realize that this was all just a verbal circle jerk, and actually taking care of the problem was not what people were trying to do, at all."

Yes, these threads sometimes do become auto-erotic. What's your point?

"Still trying to figure out how you smart guys are getting paid to do nothing, while I come in and fix what's wrong."

We don't get paid to contribute to these discussions. We actually pay with our time and share our opinions and suggestions free of charge. Some work, some don't, so what?

"Sorry I wasted your space and time."

No wuckin' furries!

"I'll go back to work, and you boys can play with yourselves."

Work safe sport and you can come back and play with us again anytime you like.

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#13

Re: Rough Running Maxima

11/24/2011 6:47 AM

Get a car with a non-common rail diesel engine in it. Lightning proof reliability built in.

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