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Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/26/2012 2:39 PM

Hi there,

I'm having some problems modelling a drive shaft for a spring powered dragster based on a spring pulling on a (light inextensible) string which is wrapped around a frustrem connected by an axle to the drive wheels.

Assuming you are using a spring with spring constant k, an object of mass m, the frustrem going from initial radius a1 to a2 where a1 < a2. The initial extension is x.

The initial part can be done using energy as spring energy (0.5*k*x^2) with the kinetic energy at the base of the frustrem and pulls the string out with varying acceleration (F=ma=kx) the object starts from 0 velocity, to best model it we wanted to look at the speed and acceleration.

Any help in modelling this would be much appreciated!

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#1

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/26/2012 2:42 PM

At first I thought you meant real modelling (as in making stuff)... then I realised you probably mean mathematical modelling.
I'd say you need less mathematical modelling and more building and experimentation.
All the modelling in the world won't help if you just get wheelspin.
Just turn up a stepped rear axle to wind your string on an try the different diameters.
An ounce of experiment is worth a pound of maths IMO. (Other units of mass are also available, terms and conditions apply)
Del

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#2

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/26/2012 4:11 PM

Along with the mass of the whole dragster, there will also be the moment of inertia for all of the parts that rotate. Don't forget your rolling friction and air drag in your equations. I would certainly perform a Laplace transform on all of your initial equations so that you can easily combine all functions before doing a reverse Laplace transform. This will be much easier than doing all of the convolutions you'll have to do.

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#3

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/26/2012 10:34 PM

It is very unlikely you are going to find a "linear" spring, with constant k, unless you are working with fairly small changes in extension. Sounds like you aren't. Something like a clock spring might give you more constant k.

Also, a picture is worth a thousand words (unless, of course, the words are on the Internet, in which case the picture is worth at least 100,000 words).

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#4

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/27/2012 12:36 AM

If you have a 3D CAD model and are looking to simulate the dynamic action of the whole thing, with an ability to change spring parameters, inertia and such "what if" scenarios, please take alook at ADAMS or visulaNastran 4D software. The latter is defunct, so MSC may give it to you free if you ask them nicely. There are some videos on YouTube which demonstate the software.

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#5

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/27/2012 5:06 AM

Use a spread sheet: ideal for this sort of problem.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/27/2012 9:41 AM

<Giggle>

You're so funny.

A spread sheet can only calculate once it has been given the correct formulas. The model is the formula.

<Giggle>

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#7
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Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/29/2012 3:26 PM

I was serious.

There are lots of interrelated formulas involved in the modeling of this problem. They are each very simple on their own. Gradually building the whole model using a spread sheet is a relatively easy way to proceed.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Modelling Spring Powered Drive Train

01/29/2012 6:13 PM

I'm sorry. I know that you're serious and that by a step wise process of putting formulas into parts of a spreadsheet one can produce a usable, accurate set of results. But you are missing my point here. In my mind, the model is the collection of formulas and how they interact. The spreadsheet is just a calculator. By making a real model in the form of either a series of Laplace or Z transforms one can produce a predictable system model for any initial input condition and not just one input condition.

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