Hub Motor for Electric Vehicles(Rotor on the outside)

Hi Seshkanuri. I am no expert but am also very interested in this subject.

From a practical point of view, I would say that you should take more things into account when choosing an option for a motor. Problem with hub motors applied on Ev's is that they are exposed to -Mechanical damage (like when you drive into a curb or pot-hole)

-water (when driving into a puddle )

-Dust

- Constant shock and vibration

-Extra heat from tyre/road friction and braking

<>- Theft (how hard is it to steal a wheel of a car?)<>

But, If you could solve all of those problems I think that the best option would be a stationary stator+ coil on the inside and in center with an outside rotor /hub (spinning) would be the best option. It is easier to connect power to , protect from damage or theft (outside hub will only be metal/magnets) Then definitely DC brushless. More power and more control... But don't rule AC motors out. They are more robust, less expensive but also it will be difficult to control their speed. You will need to "chop" the power or install some kind of variable gearbox/fan belt system. You also don't get AC batteries... You would have to power them with a small nuclear energy generator (only available in the future...)

Good luck with your project. Go see this link.

I have put in some effort to evaluate for using as electric motor for boat (must be efficient - one can take only so much battery power - paddling sucks....)

Ended up with perm motor (www.perm-motor.de) and Lynch motors (www.agnimotors.com) as being the best/most effcient.

Made in Germany, UK and also India I understand.

Good luck,

Michiel

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(www.perm-motor.de)

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Link for English page is:

http://www.perm-motor.de/index_e.html

The above link is not working as the page seem to have been deleted.

Here is another link for Electric Motors and Engines - http://www.tradeindia.com/Seller/Electronics-Electrical-Supplies/Electric-Motors-Engines/

Cheers.

Try InMotion Technologies, a spin-off of Charles Darwin University Electrical Engineering faculty: www.cdu.edu.au

This kind of motor has been discussed before at the room. you can search and read.

if youi are interested in the motor, I can offer you, from 12 to 48v,dc and ac 220v to 380v etc. how much power do you prefer?

it made of lanthanon material

There is no offer of a real product here. N one has a hub motor to sell here.

This is a discussion board that discusses the hub motor development and comments on the state of the art of this type of motors.

You can read the thread and see if there is any knowledge in that direction.

Check these guys: http://www.goldenmotor.com/

Again chinese but they seem to know what they are doing.

I do not want to brake your enthusiasm but the electric motor as a direct wheel drive will not be an optimal solution since it has a high specific weight (kg/kw). In a car the torques at the wheel are not "small" so that a motor should be used with a gear in order to have a higher motor speed and reduce the total weight for the same power since the weight of the drive is small and the motor weight for a given power decreases with the rpm. On my opinion it is not economical to have a direct drive motor but it could be interesting to use the combination motor+reduction gear.

try solarbbq.com.au

this chap sells a number of different types of motor with descriptions of there good and bad points.

Its mostly bicycles but there are also some scooter (vespa) motors .

hello,

My name is alex, I have a 3 wheeled ( 2 wheels in the front-Tadpole) electric scooter Mock up done real size with Mini double A arm ( one 2.5 1/2 tube over another with 2 yoks 2 in and 3 in at the wheel)

I wanted to use a hub motor over a 1000 wat 48 volt motor with chain and sprocet.

I see Bikes wheels 16 in.... I am needing a 12-13 in Hub Motor 48 votls for a vehicle of 100# with a rider Max of 225 # I have a shock at all wheels and a swing arm ( cheek plates 1/4 steel) in the rear. 12 in front and I am open for the rear 13 -14 Max in. I really wanted a 12 in Hub motor.

Can you tell me who would have one --golden motors only has a 16 In very nice.

but Too wide of dia.,Also what about Side loads if I slide side ways Fun driving on the hub motor.

I cant buy one then another and on.

I only can buy One

thank you

alex kattas in las vegas nv

lasvegasak2@aol.com

Please explain "I wanted to use a hub motor over a 1000 wat 48 volt motor with chain and sprocet.".

Hub Motor is different from a Motor with a chain and sprocket. See the internals of a hub motor here.

Conversion kits with Hub Motors as well as Kits with regular motors are all available on the Internet for sale.

If you want to use a regular motor with a chain and sprocket, you will get many such conversion kits and you can use them for any wheel sizes. All you have to do is add an adapter from the kit to drive your wheels without replacing your existing wheels.

I wrote an article about the up and coming electric car resurrection and at that time having a motor/generator on each wheel did make allot of sense. The biggest problem you run into is the magnetic field will gather allot of particles from dust or other airborne material and this diminishes the efficiency dramatically.

Further thought on this subject led me to a dc motor that is mounted vertically and is designed to be a high speed motor with an armature that may be 3 or 4 feet across.

You guessed it centrifugal force in a big way. The motor can be lighter overall and contain many more interactive magnetic sections. This way you get more cluck for your buck. The motor would be controlled electronically by switching the respective fields as the motor turns saving a Hugh amount of energy. Plus you have the force to get you going from a dead stop without over taxing the batteries.

In the reverse mode it would also be a generator providing braking down long hills or a small transmission could be engaged for those short stops, like a stop sign or red light providing extra energy to the batteries. Two such motors front and back would be the best. Adjusting the Axis's of spin could provide a much smother ride as well.

Hi,

I think you are right on track for this objective. What I would like to know is if you have considered an SRM Motor or a magnetic pulse motor for this as these are supposed to offer the best bang for the buck.

Regenerative braking is not new. There are a couple of manufacturers in USA who have done good work on this. Check this web site http://www.rabbittool.com

Rabbittools regen brake enhanced hub-motor was licensed by Sanyo for their bike.

Also please check the ecycle's web site which uses Solid copper bars for winding(This is a regular type high speed motor). But see the concept here.

http://www.ecycle.com/motorgenerator/CMG.htm

Any ideas if we can use this design to make an efficient Hub-motor?

Dust and efficiency is a problem of shielding.

The room inside a wheel is not that enormous to mound a motor, what you will see is that the motor will have to fit into the actual brake system and that still a mechanical brake needs to be integrated. With low profile tires you can have it a bit bigger but still the space is limited.

The big advantage is that the space needed for the actual drive train and motor is free for batteries. The wheight of the mechanics is also reduced, leaving more for the batteries.

With a wheel motor system one can make a basic mechanical frame, integrate all the needed electronics and batteries and leave the top for freedom of expression.

The system gets more and more developed as the same design is used for wind turbines to.

Before arguing about the motor type it would be pearhaps better to ask ourselves what is the power/wheel and the torque requirements. And then put the second question ist it place enough for a direct motor with such characteristics? Is a gear reduction needed? How big would be the weight of such a motor? is it not prohibitive?

If it would be so simple why is this solution not yet a standard in new developped cars?

Only as a limit the magnetic field is limited as density by the iron permeability so that torque can be achieved using very big curents. Is this coherent with the voltages in cars (max 42 V in the future)?

I know the power and speed of the car and thus the motor's rotational requirements.

Voltage = 48V - 72V

Current = 5 kW as minimum for a sub-compact like Gm-Geo or Suzuki Alto(800 CC).

Assuming the requirements of a top speed of 60Km minimum and Considering the speed requirement with a wheel size of 12" , we need a motor that can go at about 700-750 RPM with enough torque for a startup.

Overall specs of the above vehicle is pasted below:

======================================

Overall length 3335 mm

Overall width 1440 mm

Overall height 1405 mm

Wheelbase 2175 mm

Minimum turning radius 4.4 m

Ground clearance 170 mm

Seating Capacity 4 persons

Weight

Unladen weight 665 kg (AC BS III),

650 kg (Std. BS III)

Laden weight 1000 kg

Engine

Type 4 stroke cycle, water cooled SOHC (1C2V)

No. of cylinders 3 Piston

displacement 796 cc

Maximum output (Std.,AC)

37 bhp at 5000 rpm

Maximum torque (Std.,AC) 59 Nm at 2500 rpm

Power Transmission

Std., AC 4-forward, all synchromesh,1 reverse

Steering

Steering Rack & pinion

Suspension

Front McPherson strut & coil spring

Rear Coil spring with gas filled shock absorbers

Brakes

Front Disc Rear Drum

Tyres

Tyre size (Radial) 145/70 R-12

Capacity

Fuel tank capacity 28 liters (BS III)

hi guys,

I am interested with this subject. I want to design a bicycle with hub motor for my project (small one) at my college in indonesia. But any of you know how hub motor works ? Like what drive the wheel axle, is that any planetary gear, how's the reduction gear in the hub motor and so on. And because i want to modify bicycle so it still need to push the pedals, so the hub motor became such a backup energy. Can i do that ?

if you don't mind please give me your suggest and also send your answered to my mail

fosformula@yahoo.com

Your supports mean a lot to me.

Thanx.

Let's try to explain:

We are discussing the possible use of inverse motors: the stator is the axe, the rotor is the housing.

Imagine that you fix the axe of an engine in a claw and power it: you will see that the housing will start turning (don't try this)

A hub motor or wheel motor is an inverse design: the axe needs to be fixed and the housing will rotate. So the engine's electrical connections need to go through the axe.

If you would have an old CR-rom drive which is broken you should dismantle it: big chance that the disc driving engine is of this family.

The idea is great: no axes or gears are needed.

In many cases these are called brushless DC engines but in fact they are more synchro permanent magnet AC machines, you need to create a rotating magnetic field in the engine and the rotor (housing) will follow it. The engines is also equipped with sensors to know the rotors position (hall sensors), this to enable the driver to create a field which can interact with the rotor to get it going or to brake it (it can brake very controllable)

The idea is great: no axes or gears are needed.

provided that you can have the right torque in the volume available for the motor.

There are as well cooling problems since the coils are inside and many others.

Did you check the website of PML?

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

This is what I call an improvement, I wonder whether they could supply kits that could fit on all family cars and you can rebuild your own car to electric battery driven.

I had a look but it is difficult to see what they did according to the other types they manufacture i presume the motors are so called pan-cakes with an axial magnetic field generated by saco or other types of permanent magnets. The rotors are very thin and were in the past subject to thermal deformations when the torque was maintained at low speed (lack of cooling). Such motors have a low inertia but do not have the highest torque for a given gap diameter. To maintain a high torque at low speed either a fan should be coupled or the current and thus the torque is monitored according to temperature of windings so that the torque decreases versus time.

It is a quit big motor with a nice power.

I must admit that cooling is indeed a huge problem but the full electronics are in the motor, so adding a fan to cool would be no problem.

At low speed, the torque needed to keep a car rolling is also very low. (as soon as he is rolling) The problem could rise when driving slowly uphill. It was not so long ago that ICE powered engines had trouble with this.

What I miss is a mechanical brake, you need to have some form of mechanical brake in case the electronics fail.

Not especially since you have the car brakes. I think that they use in the first part the recovering of energy via electro brakes and at the end the mechanical brake of the car. It could be also possible that they have a brake in the motor as for instance in some hoist motors with a conical rotor and a spring which brakes as soon as the current goes under a threshold. Any way I would never go on board a car without a mechanical brake

Never board a car without mechanical brakes: you hit the nail.

Even the system with auto braking is not sufficient, a brake which is direct coupled to the brake pedal is needed.

The motor drive system could decide that the electric braking is taking over the function but in case something fails the driver must have the ability to overrule.

This is what I wrote ,and even if unclear, thought.

A brake is not ony a stop device but the most important safety feature of a car.

I don not know much about the hub motor, but some info I got from net

also, check this guys bicycle using the

Crystalyte 406 Front Hub Electric Brushless Motor

check for this guys video in youtube.com, he was in news.

Good luck for your project Seshkanuri.