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Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/26/2012 8:41 AM

I was doing some calculations on water vapour in air and the effect of compression a couple of weeks ago with the help of CR4 engineers, and for this I set an Excel spreadsheet. Being a bit of a novice it took quite a while to iron out the bugs in my programme - but I got there in the end.

One of the 'bugs' was an input error for units of pressure, where I jumped a stage for converting Pascals to atmosphers, such that the output result was in error by a factor of 100,000.

Which was obvious - but interesting - because it posed a question that I have not been able to find a direct answer to. What is the maximum density (the smallest volume) that air can be compressed to.

It is accepted generally that liquids are not compressible, by that I understand to mean an even an enormous increase in pressure has little effect on the volume. But in the case of air, where in normal atmospheric conditions, it is well above the critical temperature, it cannot be liquified by pressure alone. Thus if not a liquid can it compressed into a volume smaller than that of it's liquid state.

And if it could, what would happen if it was then cooled below it's critiucal temperature, would it then expand to it's equivalent liquid volume.

Just a thought.

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#1

Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/26/2012 9:59 AM

Who told you that a gas cannot be converted to a liquid by just pressure alone. I'll grant you that to condense many gasses to a liquid with just pressure one needs astronomical pressure magnitudes. (Clearly these pressures will not be contained by a Scott pack.) Consider the interior of the planet Jupiter. It is expected to have a liquefied and even a solidified layer of Hydrogen. While the gaseous layers of Jupiter are certainly cold, the solid core in the center has a temperature of 20,000~30,000 K. That's much warmer than room temperature for the lightest gas possible.

Now at 300K, what is the pressure required to liquefy Nitrogen, or Oxygen? I'm sorry to say that I did not find that piece of trivia. I did do a quick search but I failed to find it.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/26/2012 10:31 AM

Ok, I just found at Wikipedia that Nitrogen has a critical point of 126.2K and only 33.5 atmospheres. At this point Nitrogen becomes a supercritical fluid where gas and liquid phases exist concurrently. You'll notice that Wikipedia itself makes precisely your statement that above this temperature that air cannot be liquefied. However, it also makes the statement that a supercritical fluid contains both phases of gas and liquid. So to answer your question, the minimum volume is where all of the state is liquid.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/26/2012 10:59 AM

Almost ran out of editing time above. Part II of my addendum.

So a supercritical fluid above the critical point of temperature and pressure (that is redundant, but I like the emphasis) contains both states when the only parameters known are pressure and temperature. Your question of what is the minimum volume I think should then be handled this way. The density of liquid Nitrogen at boiling is 0.808 gm/cc. This will be limiting factor of how small of a volume one can have of just Nitrogen. If a supercritical fluid has only the minimum volume of space to occupy, then the only state possible is a liquid.

Now I did not include any other element in my discussion here for fairly obvious reasons. This was complicated enough.

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/27/2012 9:23 AM

What Does it mean???

If its wide enough, everyone will know that the tie I'm wearing is a symbol of how nimble my mind will know. Ooh-ooh!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/27/2012 9:31 AM

It's a quote from one of my favorite musician/composer/satirist, Frank Zappa, from Greggery Peccary.

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#12
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Re: Maximum density of compressed air.

02/28/2012 1:00 PM

Its a Very odd one.........

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#4

Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 6:16 AM

You can liquefy air, Captain - if you make it cold enough.

So you need to consider temperature as well as pressure, as with all gas systems.

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#5
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Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 7:12 AM

Hello Crabtree: Guide moaning to you.

and Redfred: Good morning.

I am not trying to liquify the air. I just want find out what happens to air when it is compressed at very high pressures well above the critical temperature.

If it does not liquify as such it must at some point reach a density equal to the liquid and therefore with no further reduction in volume even though the pressure goes on rising. Is this true?

What is this density? - ie, 0.8g/cc ? - and if taken to an extreme, would enough pressure solidify air.

If have no practical use for this knowledge - just curious about what happens.

.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 8:02 AM

You need to understand about the Critical Point, Horace. If the conditions are adjusted such that the locus moves around the Critical Point, then the substance will go from vapour to liquid, or vice-versa, without a phase change. Above the critical point, the terms "liquid" and "vapour" have no real meaning. Just squeeze away until the limitations of the equipment become apparent. Except - you have got pressure relief on this thing, haven't you?

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 7:34 PM

By the way ,did you hear anytime warm ice about? or Ice I, II, III, and ice IV? Try that info first,after all air or water will be the same for what you are looking for.-

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#9

Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 12:56 PM

at 100,000 psi and 100F, it can have a density of about 1gm/cc

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#10

Re: Maximum Density of Compressed Air

02/27/2012 3:50 PM

A compressed volume of gas/liquid will have a temperature change. So the task looks like heat rejection in the most efficient way. Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_formation

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