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Participant

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4

How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/07/2012 7:58 AM

I have a system that is collecting data from a three phase 600v electrical panel using CTs sampling every minute. I can calculate the apparent power using the three phases.

I would like to calculate the demand based on a fifteen minute window. What is the formula to convert apparent power to demand over fifteen minutes?

Here is some sample data:

Apparent Power
22.4868
22.5067
22.4821
22.5702
22.5749
22.6064
22.5518
22.5549
22.62
18.7035
17.7827
17.4872
17.5254
17.4708
18.8082
28.0229
25.1381
22.5796
22.5599
22.5702
22.5652
22.537
22.5413
22.5107
22.5182
30.0217
30.3692
29.9385
29.6692
24.4647
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Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 171
Good Answers: 1
#1

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/07/2012 10:10 AM

I will give you the procedure how to do it, follow the procedure solve your question

Calculation of Electrical Energy

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Participant

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
#5
In reply to #1

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/08/2012 6:13 AM

Are you sure that was the right link? I didn't see any thing about demand.

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/07/2012 12:34 PM
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Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#3

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/07/2012 8:56 PM

The CT's alone can't do it, and I'm hoping that you're not assuming that the voltage is constant at 600V so that you're simply multiplying 600V x the current reading on a minute by minute basis. Your sampling window is too wide, consider if you start 5 large motors 50 seconds before your next reading, by the time that the starting transient currents have died out after 45 seconds, but before the next reading, all you will have collected at the next reading is the increase in the steady state current from those motors. Your utility demand meter on the other hand will have integrated the demand over every cycle during, leading to potential discrepancies between the two.

You need to contact the utility and get their tariff or rate schedule to understand how they calculate "demand", it varies by location. You then get the right transducer that will output the proper parameter and use a 15 minute window to do the calculations according to your utilities practice.

Here's one example:

www.nationalgridus.com/niagaramohawk/non.../eff_elec-demand.pd..

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Participant

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
#4
In reply to #3

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/08/2012 6:10 AM

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. The systems I'm measuring have very consistent loads so we don't have the issue of high inductive loads being turned on. Our utility calculates demand using a 15 minute window with an average for the peak every five minutes.

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Guru

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 687
Good Answers: 21
#6

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/09/2012 6:54 AM

I have set these systems up in the past using a pulse off the demand meter of the utility. Not sure why your trying to make these calculations, but most people who wish to do this are wanting to control their demand charges.

I would suggest that you contact one of your local programmers in the area to work on this with you. The money that it may cost up front it minimal compared to saving potential.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#7

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/09/2012 11:01 AM

I thought "demand" refers to KW load within a given time interval, in which case the

load Power Factor must be known. Thus for a 3-phase load, KW = Current X Voltage X PF X 1.732 / 1000. OR why not request your power supplier to conduct a load

sampling run using a 15-minute KW data logger or strip recorder say for 5 days.

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Participant

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
#8
In reply to #7

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/10/2012 8:16 PM

Perfect. Thank you for the math. You are in fact right about the 15 minute window. The utlity company provides us with the max demand on our bill. We want to manage the max demand and knowing that 30 days later is no good. We want to know it now... before we hit the critical point.

Thanks

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Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#9

Re: How to Calculate Demand from Apparent Power

04/11/2012 4:41 AM

I'm not sure where you are located but in many cases if you ask for it the utility may provide an auxiliary contact off of the pulse output that they use. I'm still curious why you need this if the load is as constant as you say, and I wonder how you intend to manage the load under such circumstances.

If your calculations and the utility's don't agree then give them a call and ask them to meet with you to explain the discrepancies, in the US utilities are very sensitive to accusations of false billing and are usually bound by the state's utility regulating commission to assist you in every way possible.

Here's how the calculations are done:

www.electroind.com/pdf/Nexus.../E154701_Nexus1500_Manual.pdf

www.national-meter.com/dh96/DH96CPPmanual.pdf

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