Previous in Forum: Driving an AMOLED Mobile Display   Next in Forum: iPhone
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28

4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 7:21 AM

We have a Haas VF2SS CNC machine that has a problem with the USB on the control. The board with the USB cable is $2600.00 out right or $1300.00 with exchange. I think the problem is in the cable and not the board and wanted to try switching it out before dropping that much cash. The reason for thinking this is I can install a thumb drive into the cable directly at the board and it does not work. Wiggle it around a bit and it lights up but is not detected by the machine control. I looked and the pins appear fine. I did try to adjust them to make better contact but no luck. I have emailed the manufacturer to make sure I will not void the exchange value should I proceed. My question is there are only 4 pins in the Form A style USB connector but there are 5 wires at the board. Can anyone tell me where the 5th wire ties in? Can I purchase a cable with it already tied in?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: usb
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#1

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 7:57 AM

USB is a worldwide standardised connection specification. But because something looks like USB and can be forced in a USB socket does not mean it is USB and vice-versa. That's my first estimation. In proprietary equipment configurations the manufacturer is sadly not restricted from making such choices. S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#2

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 8:33 AM

Just heard back from the local service center for the manufacturer and what I am wanting to do will not void the exchange value of the board. I will do a continuity test to see which wires are tied together and drop in a jumper on a standard 4 wire config. It will be a few days before I get back to the machine to try this. Thanks for the in put and I will let you know how it turns out. In the mean time any other suggestions are welcome.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#4
In reply to #2

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 10:14 PM

Did you check with the mfg. to see if the cable is specific to this system? Did you ask them if you can use a standard USB cable?

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#7
In reply to #4

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/09/2012 7:09 AM

I did contact the service center for information on the cable. He was not sure about the number of wires. He thought 4. He did think there was a connector on the board to allow removing the USB cable. I will have to check that out as I thought it looked like the socket was part of the board and that 5 individual male pins went into. I did not see any clips to hold a connector so I did not try pulling on it.

Register to Reply
2
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#3

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 10:19 AM

My guess is the 5th wire position is actually a shield. The control operates in a hostile environment and the cable is probably double shielded to reduce noise.

A simple test with a continuity meter could confirm that the cable is at fault by testing each lead at each end. You may need an assistant to hold one of the probes and then move the wire around to look for make-break conditions.

Cables that are subject to constant flexing will break over time and it would likely be the weak link here.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#5
In reply to #3

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/08/2012 10:23 PM

Anominomi... uhm hero is correct pin 5 is shield

just check the diagram from a supplier

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#6
In reply to #5

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/09/2012 6:46 AM

I agree the 5th wire has to be a shield. I did search the net for USB configurations to see what it might be before posting and could only find 4 pins and 4 wires for the type A connector. Shielding never crossed my mind.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 4424
Good Answers: 108
#10
In reply to #6

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/10/2012 9:14 AM

Well and I thought I found a 5 pin USB (min) connector and I am a hero. Now Hero is the hero and thats only because that nebulous site did not offer any wiring specification.

Of course it is a shield. Maybe a double shield.

Whatever!

See Ya!

Below the content of said site in case you did not see it!

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#11
In reply to #10

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/10/2012 9:50 AM

I did find a mini USB 5 pin in my search originally but the site I found said the 5th pin is not normally used. There was not offering of what it was used for when in use. Guessing shielding.

If you guys have not guessed already I am not a computer repair guy. Sure I can surf the net and swap out some parts but something that seems to the basics of the knowledge base tripped me up. I am also getting schooled on RS232 ports on this repair job. Heck I thought all 25 to 9 pin cables were the same and interchangeable. Know I am finding out about null modem cables and hand shaking options. Enjoying the education and the advice from those here. Thanks for putting up with me.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sebastopol, California
Posts: 1205
Good Answers: 54
#8

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/09/2012 12:01 PM

5 is shield and is connected to non signal ground.

__________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#9
In reply to #8

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/10/2012 12:41 AM

that is what I was thinking a floating ground

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#12

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/15/2012 7:22 AM

Here is the final update on the USB cable. I made it back to the machine last night. After digging out the snot like glue (probably silicone) I was able to remove the cable from the board. With some help a simple continuity test shows the cable is good. This surprised me as I truly believed the cable was the problem. But now, I am satisfied I have done all I can do to try and save the cash for a new board. I appreciate the input from every one here. I have learned a lot about cables through this endeavor. Aside from what should have been obvious in shielding I have also been getting schooled in RS232 ports and NULL Modem cables. All things I have been researching on my own since the initial post. Anyway, thanks again.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#13
In reply to #12

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/15/2012 7:58 AM

One last thing...

Does the problem seem to come and go if you flex the PC board? You could have a bad solder joint.

I use the butt end of a small screwdriver or insulated rod and tap around on the board to locate the area for such intermittent faults.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 498
Good Answers: 28
#14
In reply to #13

Re: 4 Pin USB A With 5 Wires?

05/15/2012 9:54 AM

Good tip but I did not try it. Given my limited experience with boards I am not ready to start soldering on them. If I screw up I can ruin the $1300.00 exchange value of the board and have to tell the boss it will cost $2600.00 now. I am learning to stay in the comfort zone as I get older. I will try this on a cheaper board in the future and hopefully gain some experience and confidence to do this on more valuable stuff. I am being asked to check out this stuff as we get more CNC machines here at the shop. Service calls are expensive and if it is something I can tackle I do it. There have been more things I can fix than not. But, computers and circuit boards are not my thing. My background is more in these areas: farming, welding, machining both manual and CNC, mechanical drives, hydraulics, pneumatics, chasing women marriage, and Crown Royal Royal Crown.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 14 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Hero (2); dadw5boys (1); Deefburger (1); Epke (1); IdeaSmith (1); Mikerho (1); SimpleMind (1); The Mechanic (6)

Previous in Forum: Driving an AMOLED Mobile Display   Next in Forum: iPhone

Advertisement