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Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/15/2012 10:55 PM

Suppose distribution lines has phase-to-phase voltage 220 V instead of 440 V and service line( from electric pole to Home) has supply any 2- phase instead of single phase from 3-phage. my question is can I or is it possible to run Induction motor(Fan, Pump etc. with no starting winding) in this 220V phase to Phase supply.

thank you.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:13 PM

There is no 2 phase, it's called single phase 220, and yes some motors have an internal start winding, there are several types of motors without start winding but have reduced starting torque...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor

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#15
In reply to #1

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 11:19 PM

Some configurations are delta 3X 220 Volts. Where is the neutral here? Thus 220 between 2 phases. I do not know if the US uses it but many other countries do.

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Guru
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#2

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:16 PM

I think you are either confused about how your power is distributed in your part of India, or you have something very unusual. If I'm not mistaken, your distribution system is supposed to be 380Y220V, with 380V line to line and 220V from line to neutral. If you have 220V from line to line and you have a neutral, it would most likely be only 127V line to neutral. If you have 220V line to line and no neutral, that would be very odd, but would not likely affect the operation of 220V rated motors. Don't know where you come up with 440V.

Anyway if you have 3 phase motors and they lose a phase WHILE RUNNING, they may continue to run, but at 1/3 of their capacity. If the load does not change and is greater than 33% of the motor design capacity, then the motor will overload.

If the 3 phase motor is NOT running when a phase is lost, it cannot start, there is no relative phase roatation. If something else starts it mechanically, it will spin in whatever direction that was, but under the same restrictions as above.

If you have single phase 220V motors and were feeding them with 2 phases of a 220V 3 phase supply, then as long as the lost phase is not one of the two that are feeding the motor, no problem.

If you have 220V single phase motors running from a 380Y220V system and connected line to neutral for 220V, and the lost phase is not the one feeding the motor, again, no problem.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/16/2012 4:09 AM

Actually i am not confused. in India threre is in electric ploe's name plate written as 440 V Danger . forget it about 440. I know that 400 V line to Line and 231 V line toground. OK.

now Suppose distribution X-mer has 231Y133 (secondary).Line to line 231 and line to ground 133. Is it possible to run single phase induction motor(rated 231 V) , from any two line of 231Y133 X-mer ??

Thank you.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/16/2012 5:43 AM

Yes, though to install it correctly and safely requires the services of a qualified electrician. Is there one available?

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 12:17 AM

In India distribution voltage is 415V TPN, 3 phase 4 wire system. One phase and neutral is distributed in each residential building and the single phase voltage (between phase and neutral) is 240 V. Hence I am not clear about the requirement of this transformer. A single phase motor rated for 230V or 240 V can very well be run with the avilable power supply provided by the power distribution company.

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Guru

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 5:27 AM

What a fun.

First convert "Y" distribution to "Δ" delta and feed a single Φ to 2 Φs of "Y" to get 220V [Nominal] Φ to Φ and run your motor on 220V calling it running on 2 Φs a single Φ motor.

Why not to have an auto-transformer 400V [nominal] /220V and run your motor on 2Φs. It would be a cheaper way to enjoy a fun.

Sorry! CR4 does not have a negative marking system.

Have a fine time!

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Guru
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#3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:20 PM

By the way,

Phase:

Phage:

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 8:15 AM

You must have special personal protection equipment(PPE) to handle T2 Phage but just cloves for 220 single phase...

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#14
In reply to #3

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/17/2012 4:31 PM

Can't believe we're getting so "PC" here that someone gave you an OT for that post. Humor, when it's as good as this, should get GA's too. Oh well, I'll give you a GA for post #2 but if you got GA's for those kind of posts the lumberjack would be at 20%. Keep the humor coming and thanks.

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#4

Re: Run single-phase Induction motor in two-phage

05/15/2012 11:25 PM

Yes.

Connect F1 and F2 to your wires and use a capacitor between one of these and the F3 connection of your motor.

This is called the STEINMETZ diagram.

The value of the capacitor is:

C = P.10*6 / (2. pi. f. 0.87. U*n)

C in microFarad

P power in Watts

f frequency in Hertz

U voltage in Volts

n efficiency - unnamed

The power however and starting couple is lower than with 3 phases.

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#7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/16/2012 11:30 PM

Never been to India. Is there such a thing as a wild leg there?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 1:21 AM

If primary distribution in India is "Y" connected, there would be no "wild leg". The "wild leg" is a feature of the 4-wire delta connection, a standard arrangement that supplies both 120/240 volt single phase and 240 volt three phase power from the same set of transformers. A four-wire delta circuit provides both single-phase power for lighting and appliances and three-phase power for the 100-year-old organ blower at my church.

Ten years ago unskilled workmen mixed up the connections when they replaced the church's overhead service drops in the course of the Edison Company's regularly scheduled maintenance. This caused the death of at least one piece of office equipment and shortened the life of several dozen light bulbs. Although the high leg-to-neutral potential is nominally 208 volts, my DVM registered 165. It was enough.

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Guru

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 5:30 AM

Regards.

Bharat and Pakistan [even Bangla Desh] have 4wire "Y" distribution RST+N. 220V Φ to N.

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Run Single-Phase Induction Motor In Two Phase

05/17/2012 9:40 AM

I have a "friend" that in the past observed a "wild leg" in India.

As it turned out the root-cause of "wild leg" phenomonon was a female Elvis impersonator and not the "real thing".

However, he did say that the resultant vector was "electrifying" to the crowd and produced a memorable reaction.

Based upon his rendition and his reasoning defining the "cause and affect" of the reaction:

Logically, there must be correlation between distribution and phasing out when in the presence of a "wild leg" phenomonon.

Therefore "wild leg" sightings while rare, are indeed present in India.

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