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Participant

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3

Negative Watts

05/18/2012 4:23 PM

Hello everyone, I have question on negative power.

On a Powerlogic meter I have seen 4 events in the last six monts where I have a spike in current and a negative spike in KW. The normal range in KW is 7-8-KW and the spike is about -20KW. The spike happens in a 15min. window. The meter is ahead of a 225KVA UPS that is feeding a 225KVA transformer (480-208 ) that feeds a bunch of tools in a semi conductor fab.

Can this negative power damage equipment or the ups? Does in indicate a piece of equipment is breaking down? Is it useful information?

Any information on this would be appreciated.

Jeff

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.
Posts: 1023
Good Answers: 69
#1

Re: Negative Watts

05/18/2012 5:24 PM

Read page 38 of this manual.

Regards

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Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
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#2

Re: Negative Watts

05/18/2012 5:50 PM

Allow me to answer your question with a series of question and answers that should actually help you to figure out what is happening.

  • Can an ambiguous energy spike from an unknown source into an unspecified network cause damage? Yes, it can. However, since you are asking us what is happening instead of busily replacing some dead equipment I suspect the damage is not very severe.
  • Can the damage be difficult to find? Yes, it can.
  • Can this energy do absolutely no harm to the network? Yes, it can. It all depends on where and how this energy gets deposited.
  • Can this energy spike actually be a ghost image from some defective or improperly utilized instrumentation? Yes, it can easily be a ghost.
  • Can this problem be clearly identified and solved without schematics and further testing? No. Troubleshooting this type of a problem cannot be done without hands on testing, schematics in hand and a firm grasp of circuit theory.

I don't mean to be glib here. I hope that my questions and answers spur you into some well organized testing that will reveal your actual situation, if this situation requires remediation and how to accomplish this remedy if needed.

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Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 164
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#3

Re: Negative Watts

05/20/2012 10:03 PM

I'm a complete novice here when it comes to answering a question like yours. But I decided to make a reply because you didn't seem to get much help.

It would seem to me that a piece of equipment would be causing the spike, although you mention a 15 minute window. I don't know if you mean the event has a 15 minute duration... But the reason I think you might be seeing it is because of the UPS kind of back-charging.

The only thing I could suggest is to monitor the meter as different tools were switched on and off.

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Participant

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
#4

Re: Negative Watts

05/21/2012 5:27 PM

Thanks for the replys. I just found this Friday when I pulled up a report for another reason so I am just starting an investigation. If anyone has some pointers or has found something causing this problem, let me know.

I will try to post on my findings.

Jeff

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Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado, USA
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#5

Re: Negative Watts

05/22/2012 5:08 PM

You don't say what your Power Factor is recording at at the time of the event. You could have a grounded leg causing the event in a seldom used piece of equipment or someone doing something they shouldn't with something with significant energy usage.

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