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Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/21/2012 4:18 PM

How can we calculate cfm of storage room of honey of 300sqmtr? Area of 7 mtr height,in this 7x3 mtr, doors will open 12 hrs daily and 1000 barrels of 250kgs of honey stored, while 500 barrels daily moves in & out. Outer temp is 20C and room temp 25-30C, while hot water out 80C & in 60C from thermax fluid heater.

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#1

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/21/2012 4:42 PM

If you already have your heater, you seem to have put the cart before the horse? Your heat load would have to be calculated with more than cu meters..and if you have no curtains(air or vinyl) then what's the point? Does the honey have to be kept warm for some reason?

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/22/2012 8:50 AM

Yep, if the heater/cooler is already sized an worked then get a little cfm fan meter and measure the cfm requirements.

I'm guessing, though, that that's not an option here. I suggest you first look in the back of your Thermo book. There's a table for thermodynamic and heat transfer properties of specific foods. I'm thinking that's where you'll get the first set of data that you need for honey.

Then you set up on the energy conservation equation and make sure to balance the heat transfer (air convection) in with heat transfer out (internal energy of the honey)...

If this isn't homework then I'm sorry, but I'm just curious how you know the temperature of water in and out of the cooler but you can't get a quick estimate of the cfm.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/22/2012 3:14 PM

Does the honey have to be kept warm for some reason?

Honey has to be warm for it to pour (in a cold state it is like a brick). Additionally (unlike other solids or liquids) it is a pain to pour because it is a great thermal insulator and takes ages to transfer the heat all the way through, so if you want to pour it you need the morning to slowly heat the container up from the outside in.

For small applications electric or water heating jackets are placed around 40 gallon drums of honey which slowly heat the honey all the way through so it can be poured. This application may be a larger honey storage application.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/22/2012 5:43 PM

I agree with you about "cold" honey, but he's only talking about raising it from 20 to 25/30. I bottled some of my honey last night at 18C without difficulty.

honestly, the question doesn't make sense and there is insufficient information available. If its operator comfort, then working at 20 is often the target, but he's wanting to have a higher temp. If its honey viscosity for processing, then it would be more like 45C as the target. For processing, there is also no indication of expected transition time in the shed.

By the way, you sound like you've handled a little honey in your life. Ever kept bees?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/22/2012 8:37 PM

The original post mentioned both room and liquid temperature, so it sounded like two separate systems to me.

By the way, you sound like you've handled a little honey in your life. Ever kept bees?

No, but we are a distributor of industrial electric heating jackets and have a (fairly) large honey processing market in New Zealand, so have picked up a bit of knowledge here and there on the subject.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

06/10/2012 7:49 PM

He may be pumping it into something like tanker ships and working with quick extractors like they do on this side of the world with the South American jungle dark nectar flow. From what I hear if it's not warm they can't do their "industrial" style of harvest.

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#2

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/21/2012 5:42 PM

That's a nice little lot of honey!!!

The answer will depend on a lot of additional information.

Are you intending to also warm the honey? (From 20C to 30C.)

Are the doorways vertical or horizontal orientation? (Air loss from high "chimney" will be greater.)

Is there only one door? (Or is there possibility for flow through.)

I am interested in why you need to keep the room and the honey warm. I am an ammature beekeeper.

What do you do with the honey (process wise) or are you just a storage facility? Do you ultrafilter? How do you maintain correct viscosity across the season and the different honey types.

Note that I've marked this as off topic, but there are some details that I believe others will need before they could give you advice.

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#3

Re: Heat load calculation of Honey storage room

05/21/2012 5:44 PM

Never mind. Just an Engineer covered it.

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#4

Re: Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/21/2012 10:34 PM

Had a chance to do a little moer thinking on this question and there are heaps of questions that require additional data.

Basically, you will need to find out/estimate at least the following.

What is the thermal efficiency of the building if it were sealed?

What is the air exchange with the door open? (and any other potential air leaks)

What are the ambients inside and outside? (Delta "T" across the structure, and maybe even across each wall since a sunlit wall will have a different response to a shaded wall.)

What other heat sources are inside the facility? (like powered forklifts, fans, lights and so on.)

But from what I can deduce, the over-riding factor will be how much honey is moved in and out and what temperature is that at. Your storage volume is around 2100 cubic m (and with air density around 1.2kg/m cubed you have 2.4 tonnes of air inside) but you claim 1000 barrels at 250kg each (that's 250 tonnes). Those barrels will act like great big heatsinks or heat sources at a factor 100 times the air mass inside the storage.

By the way, welcome to the forum site. I hope you enjoy your visits.

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#5

Re: Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/21/2012 11:53 PM

It is a good practice to consult HVAC expert to select suitable ventilation ?HVAC equipment for your requirement. You can provide more details like outside condition in all seasons ( DBT& RH). Does the inside humidity to be controlled?. Materials used for room. These are few information you need to provide to estimate the heat load .

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#7

Re: Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/22/2012 3:00 PM

Is the purpose of the cfm to cool the room?

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#8

Re: Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/22/2012 3:08 PM

Can you supply more information please.

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#10

Re: Heat Load Calculation of Honey Storage Room

05/22/2012 3:26 PM

You need to calculate the thermal energy stored in the honey and hot water as sensible heat using:

q = V p Cp dt

= m Cp dt

where:

q = sensible heat stored in the honey, water (J, Btu)

V = Volume of honey, water ( cubic meters)

p = density of honey, water (kg/cubic meter)

m = mass of honey, water (kg)

Cp = specific heat capacity of honey, water (J/kg x degree C)

dt = temperature change ( degree C)

Once you calculate all the heat of the honey and water to be removed Plug the heat number into the same equation but for the rest use the properties of air and solve for the volume of air you need.

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