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How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/30/2012 5:04 AM

Hi All,

I have a situation where I need to put a 100KHz 13Vp-p carrier signal onto one of the two phase in a two phase powered system. Now I have tried this with no problem in single phase line to neutral system but this in this new application, only mostly two phase power systems is used (2 phase power is derived from 3 phase power, but the installation wiring only uses 2 phase with no neutral).

The power line carrier uses a propreitary amplitude modulation scheme for low bitrate data transmission over power line. Now

I have hunted around and can find nothing sensible for phase - phase coupling. There are alleged phase couplers available from the far east which MAY work and there are units that have outputs that you can couple to several phases but these seem to be bulky and quite expensive.

I came across a circuit which I think is a simple and straight forward way to couple the PL signal across 2 phase.

The DT is a differential transformer. For a 230V single phase, the line voltage will be sqroot(3)*230 = 398VAC. At the center tapped pri winding, the voltage across center tap and Phase A or B will be about 200VAC. Therefore, this should not exceed electrical rating for the PL coupling transformer which has been used in single phase applications before, right?

From the circuit, the DT transmits the difference signal between phase A and B across to its secondary which "converts" the 2 phase to single phase, with the PL coupling transformer on left providing the electrical isolation. The wiring arrangement of DT also serve to couple the PL carrier onto one phase (A) only with little to no PL carrier is being coupled onto phase B. Is this correct?

All I need to do is customize the DT transformer such each half of the primary winding (from center tap to phase A or B) can stand up to say 265VAC, in excess of 200VAC and the DT should work right? And for communications coupling transformer, the DT can be miniaturized further since it does not need to meet power requirements. Is this correct?

Can the above circuit work?

Many thanks!

Roy

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#1

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/30/2012 8:52 AM

Circuit attached as shown below:

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#2
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Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 12:43 AM

The problem you have is frogs in your ice cubes.

Close the freezer door.

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#3

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 12:50 AM

While sorting out your amphibian pest problem....

Why do you not want to use purpose built PLC phase coupling injectors.

There's a darn good reason why these seem to be bulky and quite expensive.

Just ask any frog who has meddled with them and survived.

Sort out that link mate.

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#4

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 3:35 AM

Hi All, I sorted out the link. Hope this works. Pls give me your advice. Thanks!

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii639/7620613i/cr41.png

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Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 4:21 AM
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#6

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 5:12 AM

Hi Wal,

I am trying to couple across 2 phase, not single phase.

Thks!

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#7
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Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 5:32 AM

So?

You couple in phase-N or phase-phase.

Transformer converts a phase-N to a balanced line and phase-phase is already balanced.

Whether one leg is or isn't grounded makes no difference. It will couple.

What is this Phase-phase feed used for anyway? You measure across that and what do you see? Still a single sin wave with a higher amplitude is all. Not really two phases. You did say NO neutral right?

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#8

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 8:28 AM

But the carrier will get coupled across BOTH phases right? Will this cause an interference across the other phase? Do you know if there's any rules or regulations regarding interference caused by PL coupling in two phase power system? I mean is there any such standards to follow whereby the PL signal should not cause interference on the other phase which it is not intended for.

Regards

CW

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Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

07/31/2012 9:20 AM

What data are you sending down the line? Where is the other end of this comms link?

and again...what load(s) are hanging off this phase-phase feed?

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#10

Re: How to Couple Power Line Carrier Signal Onto Two Phase Power System

08/01/2012 4:41 AM

Hi WAL,

I am sending 100Khz, 7Vp-p carrier low bitrate data out. Do you suggest whether the line filter inductor in the form of the other half of the transformer center tap winding is needed or not depends on the load that may be connected to that phase? i.e. If tt is connected to load that draws high current, this may cause loading effect on the transformer (assume without DT, just PL transformer on the left) and in such cases, it would then be good to have the DT or some form of inductor line trap to prevent loading? Is this what you meant?

Best regards

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