2003 Saturn Vue Clutch Issues!! Help Please!!

It sounds like the slave is over-extending....This could be several things, fork bent, wrong tob, pedal adjusted out too far, pivot ball wrong size, mounting loose....

I agree it is over extending, but it has a ring slave, no throw out fork, pivot ball and I don't believe there is any pedal adjustment to be made anywhere. I have personally examined all the parts and cannot find anything wrong or different with any of them! In my 30+ years of dirty fingers I have never encountered a clutch doing this before. Thanks for your thoughts, do you have any others??

John

Well I hate to say this, but, it would seem you missed something and need to start over...or dump the car...or pay somebody else to do it....

I agree, but we are the one's being paid to repair this witch!!! Just cannot seem to get this &$^&% under control!!

Never turn or resurface a fly wheel on a system that uses this type of actuator. They are designed to be replaced if defective. Other wise you get what your seeing. The old mechanical systems are more forgiving.

A few years ago I had a similar problem with a vehicle clutch problem. The engine had been replaced by the owners friend. When he tried to change gears after initial startup the clutch would no longer disengage the friction disc from the pressure plate/flywheel. I purchased the vehicle and after removing the transmission I found that there was no pilot bearing pressed into the end of the crankshaft. This bushing supports the input shaft of the transmission. It also keeps the friction disc centered within the flywheel/pressure plate assembly. After the first application of the clutch pedal the input shaft wobbled and the pressure plate came to rest on the thicker part of the friction disc and the clutch slave cylinder did not have the travel to disconnect the friction plate from the pressure plate/flywheel assembly. I believe the replacement engine came out of a vehicle with an automatic transmission that does not have the bushing because the torque converter is mounted differently. This might be worth looking into.

What a great problem and fix....well done....

Similar problem for me once. We had an F350 diesel with a manual transmission. The crew had fried the clutch, so I got to replace it. As a survival technique, I went for the biggest clutch that would fit. Well, that engine is used in some bigger International trucks. So I got the biggest clutch and bearing setup that was bolted to that size flywheel. But, because I was too lazy to resurface a flywheel that showed very little wear, I got screwed. The larger clutch disc would not release sufficiently because the flywheel was 15 thousandths less worn under the new disc. The transmission would not quite stop spinning when the clutch was released. And because I had ordered a metallic clutch disc, the wear in time was about a week.

Chalk it up to a learning experience.

Do you mean literally blows apart? That would take a helluva pressure.

And what are the symptoms? Does it fail to engage or fail to disengage? I'd guess the latter, but good to know.

Is the slave cylinder self-adjusting, so the piston can take up its own position in the cylinder (when the pedal released), gradually working its way back as the clutch disc wears?

As I understood, the cylinder was overextending, and the piston seals no longer remained in the cylinder.

These typs are usually self adjusting.

Make sure that you put the clutch plate the right way round. If you bolt on the pressure plate and the release "fingers' move in a lot the clutch linings might be too thick...I doubt this to be the case.

Jurie SA

Every vehicle I have replaced the clutch master cylinder on has had an adjustment on the pedal to adjust the free play. Have you checked to see if there is a small amount of free play to allow the piston to fully return because it sounds to me that the master cylinder piston is being held forward too much not allowing the fluid to return to the reservoir & just keeps pumping up the slave cylinder. If there is no adjustment on the pedal then I would try spacing the master cylinder out with shims to allow a small free play of the pedal. You should also find the push rod from the original master cylinder & compare it to the new push rod & make sure they are the same as I have had small differences in the push rod lengths causing me to have to adjust the pedal on vehicles in the past. Another thought I had is was there a spacer under the master cylinder that was not replaced when the new master cylinder was fitted as I have seen spacers under master cylinders when manufactures use the same cylinder on different model vehicles.

Check the volume of the master cylinder it may be larger that the volume of the slave (unlikely if the items are stock).

The other thing that was similar on the old mini minor clutch slave was if the rod entering the slave cylinder was too short it would not return the piston far enough into the slave to accommodated the volume of the master when depressed. ie: the returned position is not far enough down the slave and the seals would blowout when it it the stop ring.

To me these two these sound too similar and from SE's picture look very similar too.

This may not be anything, have you checked the pivot bushing at the top of the clutch pedal for excessive play or binding? This could possibly cause the over-travel in the hydraulic system. As far as changing the distance or overall travel from resurfacing the flywheel, unless someone cut way more off than needed, or the possibility of the clutch disk being installed backward, the hydraulic system is designed to and will compensate for the extra travel. We're only talking 10-15 thousands of an inch.

I've just finished redoing my brake hydraulics on my van, so I have oil on my mind. This may seem silly, but the exclamation points all over your input brings up a question. When I bled my brake system, I set up the system so that the pressure and volume of the oil, and the opening of the bleed valves could be changed incrementally. In other words, slowly and carefully. What happened when you did this? Did the oil exit the bleed screw valve? Did the return spring push the master back? I could have blown the wheel cylinders apart (working partially disassembled) if I hadn't been careful. So tell us how and what actually did happen in all (that is ALL) the boring details. It sounds like something is wrong. right?

What's the problem?

Bazzer

I am having this same issue right now. 03 vue, this is going to be the fourth clutc slave i install. Not sure what is going wrong.

What specific problems have you had with the slave cylinders? With the clutch?

Speaking of clutch master cylinders, I am on my 3rd now. Will step on the pedal and intermittently I will get a binding sensation again and then finally the plastic lollipop on the end of the piston rod snaps. Suggestions?? Getting ready to pull pedal feel some side to side play.

Engineering Superman (John), did the advice you received here fix your problem?

I just put a transmission in a 2003 Saturn VUE back together with new slave/actuator cylinder, clutch disk, pressure plate, and a freshly machined flywheel. Same car, same ring-style slave cylinder.

Got the clutch going, felt great, then all the brake fluid poured out the bottom of the tranny. I can only assume the slave exploded.

Based upon the info here, sounds like I need to put in a new flywheel and slave cylinder. But I'd really like to know if this advice fixed your problem.
Realize this is an old thread, but any replies would be very much appreciated. I can't find information anywhere else on problems with ring-style slave cylinders and machining the flywheel. All I find are debates on whether the flywheel should be machined at all.

Bob, thanks for replying to this post. If I hadn't found this thread (oddly, before I had the problem), I would have been completely lost.
Vern

Something is causing the piston in the slave cylinder to overextend. Anything that changes the relationship between the clutch parts can do this. Also, a slight change in any of the parts from the original specification will do this.

Can you adjust the mounting location of the slave cylinder? Can you shim the piston to throw-out bearing to seat it deeper in the cylinder bore?

If you have a hollow slave cylinder that centers itself on the input shaft of the transmission, you may be able to obtain shims to push the slave cylinder away from the transmission. This would push the piston of the slave cylinder deeper into the bore of it. A good auto parts store should be able to help you. Valve spring shims, or king pin shims might be useful. Examine the old slave cylinder. Note the size of the inner hole where the stationary end of the slave cylinder would rest against the front of the transmission. Good luck.

The flywheel was pretty worn down, 12 years and over 120,000 miles old. The shop that machined it down for me also commented that they had to take a lot of material off of it to get it smooth.

Shimming inside the transmission sounds questionable to me. If a new, unworn, unmachined flywheel will fix the distance problem, that sounds a lot safer.

Once again, I appreciate the advice.

The shims go on the outside of the transmission, not inside. If The flywheel replacement does not cure it, you are going to be angry. If the shims do not cure it, you will only be out a small amount of money along with the labor. Why don't you inquire from the machine shop that resurfaced the flywheel weather shims are worth the try.

I will talk to them thanks. I' am also worried that there may be a gasket on the base of the slave cylinder that is the only thing keeping fluid from leaking out around the spline. A shim might interfere with that.

As I look at a picture of your slave cylinder, I see three bolt holes that are used to hold the cylinder to the front of the transmission. I would try stacking small flat washers under the cylinder attaching holes. 3/16" should do it. Good luck.

https://flic.kr/p/zfTq3n

https://flic.kr/p/zfKkXq

https://flic.kr/p/zVgrJn

As you can see from these photos, the slave is designed to slot into grooves around the spline, and there are gaskets to keep fluid from leaking through from the transmission. So shimming the slave out strikes me as a questionable idea.

I talked with the transmission guy at AAMCO who machined the flywheel. He suggested flywheel shims. These would have been a fantastic alternative to a new flywheel, except I couldn't find any to match the bolt pattern on this oddball Saturn.

There was one GM one that would line up with five of six holes, made by Fitzall. Could have modified it, but it was going to take too long to order in, and I'd had the car torn apart too long already.

Long story short, I ended up just getting a new flywheel. So far, with the new flywheel, the problem seems to be taken care of. I've got good clutch, it's shifting nicely, and the slave hasn't blown and dumped the hydraulic fluid all over the ground.

So thanks again Bob, for pointing out the cause of this problem. It seems like the solution is either a new flywheel, or flywheel shims.

Vern

Just went through three actuators blowing seals. Good parts, new disc and pressure plate. Even tried using the old pressure plate and old actuator with new disc, still blew. No adjustment possible on master cylinder, old and new pressure plates appear to be identical. Anyone have an answer to this dillema?

Read the answers posted here. Something must be different. You need to find out what that is.