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Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/07/2012 8:28 PM

This project requires me to roll 60 sheets of 5' x 10' sheet metal into panels with a 2'6" radius curve, resulting in a 10' tall x 3'?" wide panel as shown in the drawing.

The panels need to self-support - meaning not buckle in the middle and fall over. I'm (almost?) certain that 3/8" thick would work for this, but be so heavy as to be impractical. These panels will be used indoors, no wind, and will simply provide a visual barrier at the back of a stage for one show. So - it would be great to use something like 18 gauge sheet metal, but that would most likely crumple...

What's the best way to determine the minimum thickness that can be used ( other than experimentation with multiple thicknesses) ?

Even better, can somebody just tell me "use 16 gauge" or 14, or 11, or 1/8"... ???

AND - if anyone has an idea for a material other than steel (not aluminum, too expensive), and not laminated plywood (too much labor to get the curves)... I'd love to hear what would work. Cheap is better. Fast is better. Lightweight is even better.

Thanks everyone,

TX

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#1

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/07/2012 9:11 PM

Are you kidding? 3/8"? Steel? Does it need to support a truck?

How's it supported/mounted? What keeps it standing? Wind laod a factor?

More details, but rignt now I'm at 1/8", could go down with more info.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/07/2012 11:59 PM

I was thinking the same thing. Each sheet would weigh 766 pounds for a total load on stage of 46,000 pounds. I wonder if this is one of those heavy metal acts?

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#3
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 12:03 AM

Sorry, I read this again.

Now I'm thinking rolled steel U channel on both ends of corrigated plastic board of some kind to give it the curve. You might need some curved straps in the middle to hold the shape.

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#6
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 1:59 AM

Here's some corrugated plastic sheets 60" x 120" , cheap and light weight...

http://corrugatedplastics.net/60x120white10mmCorrugatedPlastic.html

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#13
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/09/2012 5:49 AM

I was thinking more of the 4mm correx corrugated plastic sheet used for advertising signs. The OP would need a weighted framework of some kind. Most suppliers would also print any design if that was desirable.

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#4

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 12:07 AM
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#5

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 1:05 AM

We need to know how these panels are oriented with respect to the audience - do they only see the convex side? the concave side? a combination of the preceeding?

As far as I can see, there are two serious constraints in the execution of the design as described:

dimensions - the panel is 60" X 120" - but all of the cheap, light and readily-available material is 48" X 96".

stability: any material light enough to be reasonably handleable will require a frame. Constructing 60 such frames will represent major manhours.

Given that frames are a possible consideration you could use the corrugated plastic (already suggested) or maybe 1/2" expanded polystyrene (styrofoam) and then wall paper the thing with an appropriate stuff - how about mylar - giving a mirror finish?

The corrugated plastic (or styrofoam) would be applied in horizontal lifts 3'-4" high and bonded to the frame with construction glue ("good-as-nails") or equal. You would need 180 ea. 48" X 96" sheets.

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#7

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 4:06 AM

I'd think they would be pretty dangerous made of sheet metal. I wouldn't want one falling on me.
I'd go for a wooden frame covered in 3ply, even that will be fairly heavy, but at least not lethal.
Wood is much easier to work with than plastic.
Del

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#8

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 8:59 AM

I would think that a light wood frame (for stiffness & strength) covered with a very thin Lexan sheet would be light enough.

You can glue it together, if necessary.

You can spray paint it any color in the rainbow.

Lexan or plexiglass is certainly easy to bend to the specified radius. I'd say it is most likely cheaper than sheet metal, and lighter too.

Both materials are easy to cut with a jigsaw, scroll saw, and table saw. Also, easy to drill for wood screws.

Can the audience see the sides or a part of the back end Tex?

[BTW, there was no drawing file attached to your post.]

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#9

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 10:31 PM

shape the forms identical ( 2 of them) out of metal rod and suspend the bottom rod from the top rod with fabric of your choice. You can hang them from the overhead bars and raise or lower when needed. If your theater is capable. Or suspend them with poles on flat metal plates for weight. When needed to be removed or changed they would collapse to little more than the length o the rods.

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#10

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/08/2012 11:57 PM

Can you just bow corrugated plastic with monofilament line or leader wire? Is this the backdrop for a musical group? Watch out for sound focusing problems at the last minute. You can drive a sound engineer crazy as the group cavorts around the stage.

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#11

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/09/2012 5:11 AM

16 G will DO just fine!

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#12

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/09/2012 5:12 AM

16G mild steel CRCA/Galvalume WILL DO just fine!

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#14

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/09/2012 11:11 AM

Hi TX!

What is it you want to build? A wall? A roof? Or a fallout shelter? (With 3/8" steel???)

I think all you need is a sheet of PAPER or TEXTILE, i.e a screen, attached to curved bars of the required shape(s) at both ends. Suitable lighting will do the rest.

RTNM

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#15

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/09/2012 3:51 PM

For set dressing, textile on a frame is most appropriate. Rigid or semi-rigid material including a thin plexiglass or polycarbonate (which would work) is mostly available in 4X8 sheets, and although you may be able to special order larger sheets it will cost you a bundle. 60 inch or 5 foot is a standard width for cloth or canvas, and economical to buy it in bulk - a 600 + foot roll that you can cut your ten+ foot lengths from. You can either find a fabric that is already metallic (faster), or buy plain canvas and spray paint the finished panels with metallic paint. Get a weight of cloth that is not translucent or make a test panel first to check for lighting issues. I cannot recommend mylar as it wrinkles very readily and you will find it hard to get a smooth metallic look afaik.

I would use a heavy steel wire to make the curved part of the frames, cheaper than channel and easier to attach cloth. Cut the ten foot cloth pieces with two inches extra, and have a one inch loop sewn across the top and bottom for threading onto the curved wire with a tight fit to the frame. The sides can be secured with a few simple ties. Or, if you use wood to frame the upright sides, attach cloth with staples. You may need some guy wires or wood braces (if wood) on the back to make sure nothing gets knocked over during the show. Make sure nothing like this will show through under the lights.

Using cloth would also have a completely different effect on the sound, cw a rigid reflective material, and will help to deaden the echoes on your big stage.

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#16

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/10/2012 1:25 AM

Scallops are intended to provide an opaque backdrop between stage and curtains, behind the vertical light trusses. Gotta be opaque. White plastic won't do. Maybe black plastic corrugated, but that's rare and expensive.

Indoors, no wind issues.

Aluminum would be great, if not for the price...

They must be self-supporting. We cannot suspend any wire frames covered with fabric - there's nothing overhead to hang from, and we've looked at making self-standing frames for fabric - and it's the "fabric frame fabrication" that's kicking us on that because unless we stretch black fabric over a smooth curved sheet, the ribs of the frame show, or, if we only use a top and bottom curve, the stretched fabric tends to go flat in the middle. Frustrating.

We tried using a flat steel 16g sheet, and making short bow strings with clips that would hold the sheets in the correct bend. We tried that, and with 18 gauge, using 6 bow strings, we got a decent curve and the needed face smoothness. We even tried to connect to the next panel with some welding fit-up magnets on sticks - the space between panels needs to be clear so the backlight "leaks" out through the spaces between panels. That whole plan works great. Except... the sheets are expensive and heavy.

We are going to look again at the corrugated plastics, but I'm told that will probably be just as expensive in the sizes we need.

Thanks for all the suggestions! We may just have to bite the bullet and go with the steel. Any other ideas???

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#17
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/10/2012 2:43 AM

OP wanted "roll 60 sheets of 5' x 10' sheet metal into panels with a 2'6" radius curve"

But if you can deviate to NON-METAL --NON SHEET --- Bamboo tubes is the answer. Want these?

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#18
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/10/2012 2:50 AM

Bamboo sounds interesting... we could make bases that would hold the curved panels, and it is lightweight.

We'd need 500 pieces, 3" diameter x 10 feet long

Do you have a source in mind... other than the river bank behind the arena?

This has me thinking about pvc pipe, which could be solvent-welded into the curves fairly easily - like in SolarEagles picture post of the lexan wall divider. Maybe we could sell the parts to Blue Man Group for another whacky instrument when we finish... a giant PVC pipe organ???

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#19
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/10/2012 3:32 AM

www,assambamboo4world.com -- we supply A>Z engineered

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#22
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/14/2012 11:08 PM

And Bamboo Half Splits will be better still. Can paint IN/OUT

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#20
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Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/10/2012 6:56 AM

If you are going to use metal, it is the temper, not the thickness, that matters. Anything heavier than foil (which is always a soft temper) can be rigid enough for a formed structure that is not supporting any weight. So talk to the supplier about the thinnest available sheet with a half hard temper.

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#21

Re: Sheet Metal Thickness Required to Self Support Curved Panel

08/14/2012 3:55 PM

Keep in mind the safety issue too - the edges of sheetmetal panels, even heavier gauge, are SHARP! Just handling the panels can be dangerous, not to mention if someone runs into them, knocks one over, etc. I worked for a time in a sheetmetal fab shop, and to this day have never had so many cuts on my hands at one time.

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